CultureWatch

Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day...

When Darkness Descends Upon a Nation

Dec 3, 2011

Federal Labor has declared itself to be aligned with the powers of darkness. It has decided that the most important thing this nation needs is homosexual marriage, and to hell with ordinary Australians and workers who dare to stand in their way.

Here is the story: “The Australian Labor Party has voted in favour of same-sex marriage. It’s also backed a motion to allow state and federal Labor MPs a conscience vote on gay marriage if a Bill comes to parliament. The motion on the conscience vote was carried 208 votes to 185.

“The motion to change the party platform on same-sex marriage was carried on the voices. When the results were announced, Senator Penny Wong hugged Prime Minister Julia Gillard. Delegates on the floor of the party’s national conference in Sydney clapped and cheered.”

So Labor has officially and decisively abandoned its own base, the workers, and the Australian people, and has declared that it exists solely to do the bidding of Bob Brown and the militant homosexual lobby. This is a sad day for a political party and the nation.

Well did Kim Beazley Sr say three decades ago, “When I joined the Labor Party, it contained the cream of the working class. But as I look about me now all I see are the dregs of the middle class. And what I want to know is when you middle class perverts are going to stop using the Labor Party as a spiritual spittoon.”

Imagine what he would say today? This is a betrayal of workers, of a party, and a nation. It is a sell-out, and our children will especially suffer as a result. And assuming this becomes a bill and is eventually passed, this will clearly mean an open attack on Christianity, family, and marriage.

And what of Labor’s leader? Did we really ever expect that a fornicating socialist atheist was going to really hold the line on this? Of course not; certainly not when she is in bed with our other leader, a homosexual socialist atheist. One commentator got it right:

“But it is now clear Gillard’s authority and credibility will be diminished by the vote on the party platform at a conference she has been unable to exploit to lift her leadership and revive Labor. While senior ministers such as Wayne Swan, Simon Crean and Anthony Albanese desperately insisted Labor was not being sidetracked by same-sex marriage and was really concentrating on jobs, the opposite was obvious.

“Incredibly, this was an issue Gillard had decided to commit to before the last election and has continually defended but has not publicly championed so that if she was beaten she would be seen as going down fighting for something she believed in.

“Instead, Gillard has only weakly defended her position in a newspaper article and completely disappeared from view ahead of the conference this week. This defeat for Gillard and the fight within the ALP, no matter how it is handled, will have reverberations far beyond the single issue of same-sex marriage.”

There are not only huge political and social ramifications concerning all this, but spiritual ones as well. The Bible makes it quite clear what this is all about:

Proverbs 14:34 – Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.
Proverbs 29:2 – When the godly are in authority, the people rejoice. But when the wicked are in power, they groan.

But it is not just godly leadership which is so very much lacking today. So too is godliness in the pews. Where are the Christians who have faithfully stood up about this? I have been telling Christians for months now they must contact their local MPs before this Labor conference.

Yet I would be very surprised indeed if even 5 per cent of them did. We are so engrossed in our own selfishness and trivial pursuits that we are fully happy to see the entire nation be destroyed around us. Our apathy and indifference is killing this nation and it is killing the church. Yet we do not even bat an eyelash over it.

And don’t get me started about all the so-called Christians who actually support Labor, the Greens, and the radical homosexual agenda. The truth is, we have traitors in our midst, even in the pulpits. One pastor after another has sold his soul in order to be popular, receive the praises of men, and not rock the boat.

Fortunately not everyone is living in gross, sinful compromise and rebellion. A pro-marriage rally was held this morning in Sydney to side against the evil at the Labor conference. There should have been tens of thousands of Christians there – even hundreds of thousands. If Hillsong alone sent its flock there, it would have been massive.

So where were they? Why do the bulk of believers seem to not give a rip about any of this? Why are our churches silent, our leaders cowardly, and our people so frozen? What will it take to rouse a deaf, dumb and compromised church? There is clearly only one answer to all this:

“If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land” (2 Chronicles 7:14).

www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/cheers-as-alp-backs-gay-marriage/story-e6freuy9-1226212928302
www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/single-issue-with-many-consequences/story-e6frgd0x-1226212740909

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62 Responses to When Darkness Descends Upon a Nation

  • Thanks for this article as well as the many you have written on this subject. Being one of the 5% who did write to their MP, I can tell you that the reply I received was disappointing. My local MP was clearly on the side of “Political Correctness”, and deaf to any appeal to the dangers of SSM. We can just trust in the Lord now, and continue to pray that His will will prevail – as it must, come what may!
    BTW, I would loved to have been in Sydney today, but unfortunately reside in Adelaide, where things are going from bad to worse. I am fortunate enough to attend a Baptist Church where the preaching is Gospel based, and very much open in the sad truth about homosexuality.

    Joan Davidson

  • My local MP is a Christian. He sent me a personalised response along with a 9 page booklet of a speech he gave at a university regarding the issue of same-sex marriage. I would love to post the whole speech, but as that would make for a very lengthy post, I’ll just include 3 small sections of it.

    Life is about relationships and particularly about family. Many people who were adopted struggle with the issue of their identity. People who were conceived through donor sperm have set up a whole website http://www.tangledwebs.org.uk , where they share their feelings of being cheated; their trauma caused by being denied the knowledge of who their father is….

    In effect, the institution of marriage is made to suffer for the sake of a tiny percentage of the homosexual population. Whatever the motivation of its proponents, “gay marriage” ends up being more about validating the homosexual life than about strengthening marriage or stabilizing homosexual unions.….

    There is no rational ground for renaming the relationship between two people of the same sex marriage. Such relationships are unnatural, inherently unstable, sterile, result in a significant reduction in life expectancy, and provide an inferior environment for rearing children.

    I hope and pray that there would be many more caring people like him in parliament.

    Annette Nestor

  • Yes I wrote to my MP and all my senators (in Qld). Twice to each. Most didn’t respond. Those who did gave PC answers that could mean anything to anyone. Ron Boswell and Barnaby Joyce, both Nationals, were the best response in standing firm against the abomination of homo marriage. Craig Emerson (Labour) said he supported marriage between a man and a woman but I don’t know what he voted at the ALP conference.
    John Harris

  • Thanks guys for writing and taking a stand. If there were only millions of other Australian Christians who cared as much as you do.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Can we please get a list of those who spoke at the ALP Conference for and against the proposed change to the definition of marriage.
    Its time the community knows who is who – I read that at least two ALP members would have crossed the floor in Parliament to vote against a change to marriage definition even if such was mandated by the ALP Conference – and would have been expelled from the party, and probably sunk the change. BLESS THEM.
    Stephen White

  • G’day Bill,

    Stephen’s question is a good one. How did church attending MP’s like Kevin Rudd speak and/or vote? Did he stand up for the truth of God’s Word like his hero Dietrich Bonhoeffer? Does anyone know?

    I received a good hearing from my National Party MP when I went to see him; and he assured me that he would vote against same sex marriage.

    Bill, what can and should we do now, since it’s almost certainly going to a vote in federal parliament?

    Andrew Campbell, Wagga Wagga

  • Hi Bill,

    I am with you on this one. I also sent a letter to my local MP but as per usual no reply. That makes four letters on different topics and nothing. So much for local representation. It is sad how the minorities voice is much louder than the majority. Maybe I should put forward the argument that polygamists are discriminated against. If a group of people love each other why not let them all marry to each other. I do not see the difference in the argument.

    Ben Green

  • Stephen, that is really encouraging to hear that 2 brave MP’s have the guts to cross the floor and defy party policy. Regretably, I suppose the inverse is true. If one of the opposition defy party policy then we can never be sure of the outcome. If this issue went to a referendum then it might not get the double majority it needs. Either way, Australians need to remember what a vote for Labor represents from now on.
    Alex Burton

  • I don’t think Gillard ever intended to keep her promise on this issue, just like she never intended to keep her promise on the carbon tax. She only ever made the promise (or should I say, said the words) to win the election. How her words fooled Christians who thought she made a promise. How gulible. Her real heart was always to see the outcome she got on the vote today. Witness her hugging Wong. All the nonsense about the conscience vote and her losing the support of the party, etc was just a strategy to portray the PC image. War is deceit. The whole thing was orchestrated by a network of players to acheive what they really want to do for maximum political benefit for all.

    We really need to pray for a miracle here, as the Psalmist used to pray. In the scheming of these God mockers may the Lord’s name be exaulted. We have done what we can. Yes, there is more that we can do. But we don’t have either the political clout or the political nose to turn this around. It has to be a miracle from God. Do it Lord sp that everyone knows the You are God.

    Tas Walker

  • Thanks Ben

    Yes you are exactly right. The arguments for SSM are idenitcal to the arguemnts for group marriage, as I discuss in my book and in articles like this:

    https://billmuehlenberg.com/2010/11/22/homosexual-marriage-and-the-slippery-slope/

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Thanks guys

    Yes a complete listing of how the votes went is important, but I believe Labor sneakily recorded only votes, not the names that went with them. But if such a list does exist we will certainly publish it far and wide.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Thanks Bill, for your leading on SSM.It’s very distressing that more people did not contact their MP – maybe more did but we cannot see the evidence of that contact. I wrote to my local Federal member and he emailed back his support of our family’s position.
    Brian Hof

  • I am sick to hear that our Labor Govt. is for the same sex marriage. I can only pray that God will deal with these people who are for it. Our God we trust is fair and just. Let Him judge those who supported the same sex marriage and face their own consequenses.
    They only care for themselves and not for the majority of all Australians. Who would want their children to be told that it is okay with the same sex marriage. Already the world we live in has got so much social problems, now the Govt is truly responsible to add another law to say it is okay to get married even though it is the same sex!!!
    I am very sad to hear today’s news regarding this subject.
    Molly Lim

  • Yes, this is in fact the darkest day for the nation of Australia. All we can wait for now is the day of fire and brim-stones. Unless the Lord intervines.
    Albert Kamau

  • Referring to homosexuality even in his day, G K Chesterton once remarked:

    As for those who support homosexual marriage or any other type of union, Chesterton commented in his day:

    “People who hold these views are not a minority but a monstrosity. It is simply another example of the modern and morbid weakness to sacrifice the normal to the abnormal.”

    And he added, “Marriage is a fact. You cannot change its definition, just as you cannot change the definition of motherhood.”

    Marriage was intended by God for the joining together of a man and a woman.

    Bob Brown, Penny Wong, Gillard, and as well as many of their peers, and those in our society, including those who profess to be Christians, who advocate homosexual marriage are just plain wrong. The trouble is, they can’t see this.

    And while they are smiling and patting each other on the back for they so called “marriage equality” tripe (and that’s what it is), an enormous whirlwind is building against our society that will strip us bare, but also bringing us to our knees.

    (No doubt the great economic disaster that is looming, is no coincidence.)

    But apostle Paul warned us: “Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.” Galatians 6:7 No doubt this can be applied to a whole society also.

    Trever Grace

  • My local MP supports traditional marriage. I also would like to know the most effective steps to take to raise this issue at a Federal level when a bill is introduced. Are ACL petitions and the like of much use?
    Garth Penglase

  • Thanks Garth

    To be honest petitions achieve very little at all. If anything, they can be quite counter-productive. That is because most people who spend the 5 seconds signing a petition will then pat themselves on the back and think, “there, I’ve done my bit’ and it’s back to business as usual. They will not do what is most effective, which is to visit their local MP. The second most effective means is sending a personal letter to your local MP.

    So by all means sign a petition, but only in addition to these other far more important and effective means, not as a substitute to them.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Have contacted my Federal member Don Randall and been assured he will always vote against same sex “marriage”
    As well as writing to our politicians we must pray for them every day.
    Anna Cook

  • So a socialist atheist prime minister has supported/allowed same sex marriage? Possibly par for the course. Sadly, in the UK a supposedly Christian???, Conservative (ie ‘right’ wing) prime minister wants to bring in and supports same sex marriage. Isn’t it unbelievable? Our previous (labour) PM, a son of the manse, stood out against it.
    I must try writing to my Conservative MP. However, the mealy mouthed reply I received over the issue of abortion suppliers (paid) currently being the only ones to be allowed to advise women on whether to have an abortion doesnt give me much hope of any favourable action.
    Katharine Hornsby

  • It is time to pray “The Lord rebuke you” as Michael prayed in Jude 9, and the Lord in Zech 3:2. We need to pray for the salvation of our politicians in all parties, so that we pray for the destruction in their lives of everything that would hinder them from turning to God. So I encourage believers to listen to God and ask for Him to destroy whatever Satan is using to blind them from the gospel. This may mean you pray against their euphoria, their health, their relationships, their sleep, their finances, their safety, their humour, their entertainment, their houses, their cars, their education, their friends and families. To allow them to prosper in the world and shun the gospel is equivalent to cursing them.
    Jesus teaches in Matt 5:29,30 it is better to lose your eye or arm than go to hell.
    Rob Merrells

  • To add to Bills suggestion on sending a personal letter to an MP. One of the most disheartening things in this debate, is that so much information is being stifled and not brought into the public’s and politicians awareness. If anyone is thinking of writing or visiting an MP can I suggest you send an accompanying story or two, showing how this issue has effected people and in particular Christians overseas.
    People who have lost jobs, or churches vandalized who refused to perform homosexual weddings, or Christian adoption agencies that have forced to shut down, or school teachers, marriage celebrants, psychiatrists sacked for their views, Christian retreat centres who refuse to allow gay camps etc, the sad stories of children raised and abused by gay parents, the current case of Lisa Miller having to flee the USA with her daughter who was being sexually abused at the hands of her ex lesbian lover in which the US courts have ordered her to surrender full custody even though she has no biology with her. Miss Miller became a Christian, renounced her homosexuality and now lives in the fear that the FBI is hunting her down to take her now 9 yr old daughter away.
    Many stories you could find on this website, Bills book, or numerous others websites.
    A so called Christian parent gave an emotional speech at the ALP conference yesterday claiming this is an issue of ‘love and hate’ as she pleaded to be able to see her gay son married. Unfortunately, statistics and scientific evidence are not compelling many in this debate- so we need to get the unheard stories out there.

    Regards,
    Annette Williams

  • What a sad indictment on those who are loving and kind, given to support and generosity toward those who would seek acceptance and love in our amazing land.
    What a sad, cruel, nasty piece of writing.
    I am presuming, in days of yore you would have railed against women voting, having rights over their own bodies, over the bringing of our indigenous brothers and sisters into our midst ( for I was born when Aboriginal children were not allowed into the local swimming pool, because of ‘good Christian folk’) and you would probably be on the side of maintaining the status quo on slavery and belief in eugenics all lead by the religious.

    Educate yourself. Learn the true meaning of ‘love’.

    (I do not expect this post to be published)

    Annie Elizabeth

  • Thanks Annie

    Yes you are right about one thing: I normally would not post a comment like this, since it is loaded with ad hominem attacks, straw men and other bizarre logical fallacies.

    And I would like to think I am educated on this issue. I have just penned an entire book on this, with over 700 footnotes. How many books have you written on the subject?

    And if we want to know the true meaning of love, we of course must go to the true source of love. Biblical love is always about willing the highest good for the other person, not allowing them to wallow in sin, addiction and death. Love means telling people the truth, and seeking to set them free from their dead end lifestyles. Love means caring enough about others to not lie to them. Love means protecting our children, our families and our society, as well as the institution of marriage.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Bill, thanks for your patient and Christian reply to Annie’s rant and for your clear lesson to her about what true love is. Please God she will read and eventually learn the nature of true biblical love.
    John McCarthy

  • Unfortunately or possibly fortunately we are in the last days. When a nations moral are controlled by a minority and Christians are too complacent to speak for the truth then we know who is in control. Fortunately we know from the Bible that this is only for a short time.

    God reminds us that we must keep his commandments including the fourth in order to be saved. Christians should unite and ask themselves who is on the Lord’s side? Most battles were lost when the Lord was not with the people because they tried to do it their way.

    Ray Wilkie

  • I too am a christian and I used to believe that same as you, but just last year my own son, Jeremiah, took his life because he was gay and knew that none of his friends or me and my wife would accept him.

    I have since then changed my position on the issue, I would have much rathered I have my son with me today and for him to be able to face gods judgement and have a chance to repent, than for him to have taken his own life and go straight into satans lair.

    I’m sorry to see that you all feel that love is a bad thing. There isn’t much of it left in the world and I say we should promote as much love as possible, whether that be heterosexual love or homosexual love. You say that it will harm our children to know that it’s okay to be gay, in fact the opposite is true.

    I hope that everyone here takes a good look at what they’re saying and how they speak to their own children. For me it was too late, but it’s not too late for you. Only God can pass judgement on others, it is not up to us to do so.

    Michael Sutherland

  • I have emailed 1 Labor MP in Sydney who is not simply accepting the so called evidence of “polls” but is calling for a referendum, I sent him an email encouraging him to stand against those who would try to intimidate him into simply going with the crowd. He says that people who believe in so called marriage equality should join the Greens. I wrote a letter to my federal MP who assured me that he is against same sex marriage. We need to be active on this both in prayer and action, if we can attend a rally then by all means, if not, then emailing and writing letters to mps of both sides of the political fence. I think Annette Williams above has a good idea in including an article that actually shows some of the truths about this whole sordid issue. As for Annie above, her comments are full of baseless vitriol and simply serve to strengthen the true nature of the “tolerance” these progressives have for anyone who opposes their agenda.
    Stephen Davis

  • Thanks Michael

    We can all sympathise and pray for this, as it is a difficult matter indeed. But it is quite remiss of you to take a personal tragedy and seek to get political mileage out of it, to push an agenda, or to seek to lay a guilt trip on those who disagree with you. I and my readers know nothing of your situation so of course we cannot comment on it. No one begrudges your concerns over what happened, but I for one must still call your bluff.

    The biblical truth on homosexuality did not result in this sad situation. So don’t seek to make us somehow responsible. If a loved one of mine embraced this lifestyle I would of course still love him or her, but I would also tell them the truth about this dangerous, high-risk and unhealthy lifestyle. You say you “did not accept him”. Again, I know nothing of your situation, so it is unfair to expect me to say anything on this, but one can accept and love a person while not approving of a dangerous lifestyle. I can love a drug addict or alcoholic while strongly disproving of the actions which are killing these people.

    And we know that homosexuals have all sorts of problems which are due to the lifestyle itself, not because of social disapproval. For example, homosexual suicide rates are just as high in places where it is fully accepted (eg., Sydney or San Francisco or Amsterdam) as anywhere else. So disapproval (even by parents) is not at all the core cause of suicide here.

    If you claim to be a Christian then you should know that love has absolutely nothing to do with lust, or with mere feelings, or with violating God’s principles of human sexuality. Indeed, real biblical love has to do with keeping God’s commandments, not openly and defiantly breaking them and defying them.

    And any parent will want what is best for their children. A lifestyle which basically guarantees a shortened life is not best for any child. A loving parent will do all they can to keep their children out of such a lifestyle, and tell them the truth about it. They certainly will not falsely and unbiblically say that all loves are the same.

    Indeed, as one commentator just said elsewhere: “Heterosexual couplings are not identical to homosexual couplings. Heterosexual couplings are the sorts of couplings required for the continuation of our species. Strangely, the gay crowd already has a term for this: ‘breeders,’ which is often used pejoratively in reference to heterosexuals. It is inconsistent to insist on redefining marriage under the ‘marriage equality’ banner, when they, perhaps in a Freudian way when they use that term, admit that their sexual activity is not identical to heterosexual sexual activity.”

    So we all can and will keep you in prayer (indeed I already have), but none of us need to buy your unbiblical and unhelpful change of direction here.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Bill,
    Thanks for not being afraid to stand up for the truth. I pray that God multiply your kind in this nation. The Labour Party’s stance on the same sex marriage issue was highlighted in my sermon today. I made the congregation aware that the Party’s decision is devilish. They should therefore talk against it at their work places and wherever they find the opportunity to do so. My church will commit itself to praying on this issue.
    Michael Ntanu

  • Hi Michael,

    I submit to you that the real culprit in your son’s tragedy is the lie that sexual identity (male) is the same as sexual behaviour or attraction with that gender identity. Your son falsely believed that his identity was wrapped up with homosexuality that he could not imagine you or his friends understanding that the two are worlds apart and still love the real core of who he was, Jeremiah – despite what he may have been doing. No-one here can comment on how that might’ve been better handled, but it is absolutely wrong of you to lay the blame at people here and Bill is right to reject this claim of yours.

    I appeal to you that you would be better off joining on the side of truth with those appalled at the ALP’s public declaration of opposition to human sexuality and coming to the realisation that it was Satan, the father of lies himself, who is on the side of death and hated your son enough to deceive him into a dead-end lifestyle, and then into death – and Jesus, resurrector and healer, who is on the side of life and would’ve gladly admitted another repentant sinner into his kingdom, paid for with His precious blood and verified with His own resurrection from the dead.

    You have a decision to take now as to what side you stand on. Bill and others here are not your enemy. Far from it.

    If it was me, I would not let myself be used as a political tool for people who are so steeped in darkness – so utterly deceived – that they can’t even honour the special male/female relationship that gave rise to their own lives. Over 7 billion people currently on this planet – over 100 billion throughout history now – and all of them are testimony to the uniqueness of the male/female union. The score on the other side is still ZERO. Yet activists want to claim there is something equal about homosexuality to heterosexuality. The claim is ludicrous and almost insane.

    Don’t let your son’s life be for nothing by potentially facilitating someone’s else’s son or daughter to the same fate. The problem isn’t the mental anguish surrounding ‘lack of acceptance’, the problem is the homosexuality itself. Some people’s conscience cannot handle the clear dichotomy between what they have done (or are doing) and the obvious testimony of their bodies which testify to their own sexual compatibility to the opposite sex.

    I pray you seek someone out for healing because attacking Bill and others will not salve your conscience, it will likely only make matters worse.

    Mark Rabich

  • I do not favour gay marriage, but I would cautiously support any ‘civil union’ type of ceremony which has a different name to reflect the special nature of the partnership between two men and two women. My concern is that if ‘gay marriage’ is to be enshrined in law, how long will it be before churches are no longer able to have their own strongly held beliefs? Will churches be legally forced to engage in marriage ceremonies against one of their core beliefs? Wasn’t the idea of separation between the church and the state meant to protect the church?
    Marriage is not only a contract between the couple and their God, but between the couple and the community. Don’t gay people already have the right to have a public ceremony and stand in front of their mates and declare their love for one another, with a celebrant in attendance to do the honours? If so, I simply don’t understand what this push for ‘gay marriage’ is all about, and I wonder whether the gay lobby really speaks for the average run of the mill homosexual who wants to live a quiet normal life without publicising and marketing their sexual preference every day of the week.
    Bill do you have any comment on gay civil unions – perhaps gay activists can come up with a different name for this.
    ps I a friends with a number of gay people who don’t fit the gay activist profile. I have no doubt that there is true and abiding love between gay couples.
    Ruth Bonnett

  • Bill, Beasley Senior’s famous denunciation took place at a state ALP conference with an agenda for legalising abortion, allowing gay couples to adopt children and abolishing censorship. He was a better intellect and orator than Whitlam and could have lead the ALP but for the influence of MRA on his political principles. His guiding principle was ‘The thoughts of God, given primacy in the life of man, bring to the innermost motives the virtue of mercy and with it the cure for hatred that can turn the tide of history. This is the essence of intelligent statesmanship.’
    Clive Skewes

  • Thanks Ruth

    Civil unions are just a form of sme-sex marriage. Indeed, whenever they are legalised, SSM is sure to follow. So they are not at all needed. Sisters have “true and abiding love between” one another, as would a parent and child, or many other relationships. But they do not need CUs or marriage. But I document all this carefully in my new book, Strained Relations. There I show that most homosexuals don’t even want marriage, and they intend to radically redefine it anyway.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Bill, I take exception to the tone of your article, the Labor Party is a good party, however I do agree with the words of Kim Beazley Sr.

    Regardless of what other parties may say, Labor is the only political party that is serious about the problems of the poor, the disenfranchised, the people with mental or physical disbalities; the people who would other wise be left to founder and rely totally on the charity of others. These are the people Jesus related to and empathised with when he was on earth, and most assuredly still does. I was a delegate at the conference and I voted against putting gay marriage in the platform, as did almost half of the delegates.

    The problem is, of course, that almost half is not good enough. The real underlying problem is that good people with a sound sense of morality and the courage of their convictions are not inclined to join the party. This means that the number of delegates with self-interested set agendas in the party then have a disproportionate say in promulgating policy. It is articles like this one that condemns the party, and therefore all party members, that cause good people to turn their back on Labor and scorn and deride all who are a part of it. Do you condemn the church if some of the parishioners do not fulfill the expectations placed upon them? Do you condemn the church if a priest or minister fails in their duty? Bill, you and others who make such sweeping obloquies must therefore shoulder at least some of blame for making the party the way it is and subsequently for its product, although I understand your good motivation and frustration.

    The good news is that, although gay marriage may be in the party platform, the other substantive motion touching the matter was successful. Any bill brought before parliament (which will most likely be done in February next year) will be the subject of a conscience vote. However, having said that, this is not a “Labor” thing, you will find a large number of conservative pollies who will also support this bill. Now is not the time to throw your hands in the air; now is the time for everyone to start lobbying their federal MPs whatever colour they may be and not give up, and not get disheartened if they do not receive a reply. It will be crucial to lobby these people hard after the bill is first tabled.

    This is not the end; the fight goes on and no one said it would be an easy fight. We must all rise to the challenge.

    Tony Martin

  • The pen is mightier than the sword? I must be a barbarian because I pray God does what he did countless times in the OT. He raised up a neighbouring nation to bring down these vile creatures and I for one, would run through the streets singing praise to God our King.
    Daniel Kempton

  • I watched the debate on the TV at the weekend and was encouraged to see a strong defence of marriage from those who spoke. I was however disappointed that those arguing for a change in platform merely repeated the usual mantra’s of equaility, ending discrimination and suggesting those who disagreed were bigots. The usual refusal to engage with the actual issues in any meaningful way.

    Peter Sanderson, Adelaide

  • Wow.

    Three commenters have now effectively claimed that there is such a thing as homosexual ‘love’. And two of them make it clear that it is because they know someone personally that they hold this position. I would say it is highly likely that the other (Annie) also knows someone.

    Do any of these commenters actually stop and think about what homosexual sexual activity can do to the human body over time? Do any of these commenters fully consider why every person is alive today? Is it really possible these days that all because someone they know denies their sexuality (ie. male or female) they are willing to turn truth upside-down?

    The problem is that most people are unaware that a lifetime of homosexuality activity will almost certainly shorten that lifetime dramatically, let alone enshrine infertility for them. Homosexuality, like abortion, is facilitated in our community in part because the reality of it is actually so horrible that people do not wish to discuss the details. And in some ways that is fair enough. Both homosexuality and abortion have been sanitised so effectively what many people believe and what is actually true about it are as far away as the east is from the west. Those who wish to tell the truth are personally attacked.

    Like this guy from Canada, despite him having very good reasons to tell the truth.
    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/its-not-like-they-didnt-hear-the-truth-on-homosexuality-waiting-on-canadas

    Not only is it to protect literally the most special union on earth from having its brand trashed, but also to truly love people involved in such a destructive lifestyle to risk them hating you for the sake of telling the truth, I am astonished how easy it is for the devil to get people to believe a lie, even as their own bodies bear testimony flat out contradicting the claim from their mouths.

    To summarise: If you love someone, you will tell them homosexuality is wrong. Homosexuality is the antithesis of love because it denies sexual reality. True love does not entertain lies. Consider that by far the most overt expression of love the world has ever seen was actually also deeply disturbing and horrible (ie. Jesus dying on the cross), nothing at all like the fuzzy feelgood counterfeit advertised these days. Annie, Michael and Ruth, along with many others, need to re-assess what they believe and how they were sold a lie.

    Mark Rabich

  • Bill,
    What happens with this”slippery slope” if some time in the future someone want to marry their dog?
    They can use the same debate points such as, I love my dog, I take care of my dog, we give support to each other.
    Since we are living in a time when “moral values or values from a higher source” are being ignored or thrown out we can do what ever we want if we feel that it is right.
    So, we shouldn’t worry about other moral issues like greed or justice either as we can change what this words mean to any meaning that suits us which i can see is happening in our society as well. I am interested in other commentators ideas about this
    Anthony Van cooten

  • I should have also added, that marriage should only be between humans or is this discriminating against some other life form. Interested in your views.
    Anthony Van cooten

  • My husband commented “Good on you Clive”. He quotes what Bill did on Beasley Senior. This added to that. My parents sang his praises (Beasley’s not Clive’s).
    On the other subject I signed the petitions and think my poor local member got more than one letter as so many sources said be sure to write. Alan Tudge replied personally and agreed that marriage was between a man and a woman. He says he answers his emails personally.
    Katherine Fishley

  • This is an email that I recently sent to friend. Is anyone else interested?

    Much depends on how the vote is taken in the House; party discipline versus conscience vote. It’s thought that as much as one-third of ALP Members will vote against a change but one-third of Liberal members will vote FOR it! I don’t think it’s too late to organise a single issue movement against change as a vote is not supposed to be held until about April; to bring pressure on vacillating politicians who believe surveys show their electors are for change and to influence public opinion by countering the lies that this is a matter of “human rights” or equality. Homosexuals now have just as much right to marry as anyone else does but marriage is DEFINED as a union of two people of OPPOSITE sex which is the way we think it should remain defined. If homosexuals want some kind of recognised union other than marriage then that’s another matter. We should focus on defence of marriage as traditionally defined. Around demands and slogans that reflect that central concern, uniting people who may very well have differences of opinions on other issues, even on whether or not marriage is divinely ordained. A suitable demand may be “NO CHANGES TO THE MARRIAGE ACT”. We need to mobilise great masses of people so it needs to be a non-religeous, non-sectarian movement that unites all people who agree with the central demand regardless of their other views and beliefs. We need to have simple, straight forward, non-sectarian literature and speakers that stick to the central demand and arguments, not straying off into disputed territory and we need strict marshalling, not allowing banners and placards that say anything but the approved demands and slogans (e.g., no anti-homosexual slogans). This will (1) focus and simplify our demands, (2) unite people of disparate beliefs behind the central demand and (3) protect us against the work of agent-provocateurs (and there will be many). Our marshals cannot be pacifists as we will also attract goon squads who will need to be dealt with lovingly but firmly. You notice I use the word DEMAND. We have no room for namby-pamby “Christianisms” , this is war. The Lord cleaning out the Temple will be our guide. We should let politicians know that we will hold them PERSONALLY responsible for the outcome and will use that either for them or against them in the next election according to their vote. Our point should be that this is not just another tax or program or scheme, this is about one of the FUNDAMENTALS of our civilisation and should not be taken lightly.

    I organised many anti-Vietnam war rallies and marches in the early 70s including one of the Sydney Moratoriums. What do you think?

    Col Maynard

  • Hey Mark
    That should be 99,999,999,997 ‘are testimony to the uniqueness of the male/female union’ .

    Sorry, us Maths teachers, cant resist numbers.

    Rob Merrells

  • I wish to respectfully respond to the blog comments of Tony Martin.
    Tony comments “the Labour Party is a good party,” A person or a group of people are only as good as their substantiated word/deed evidence. So, I am in grave doubt about the label of good to a group of people who have allowed this bill to be considered, since gay people already have legal equality in Australia. They should not expect male female relational equality because they are not male female relationally. They are brother- brother or sister-sister, which is not the same. Or one could say boy-boy or girl-girl relationally. Or one could say female-female or male-male, but whichever way you word it, it’s still NOT a male-female relationship, so it can never have the dignity of a male-female relationship. Dignity will not be falsified, and integrity is not a superficial veracity.
    Trish Martin

  • Furthermore, Politicians should care for wholesomeness for their constituents, so how can Anna Bligh encourage homosexual constituents in a life-shortening, self-limiting lifestyle. That is hate masked as insipid pseudo love. That is the same as a mother, encouraging her child to use drugs because he is struggling with the control that those (drugs) are having over him. That is not good, that has the facade of being good, but is definitely not good and it is not love. If you want an accurate definition from an online dictionary the word façade is defined as the following: Façade – “an outward appearance that is maintained to conceal a less pleasant or creditable reality”
    If we encourage homosexuality we are wishing less than the best for them. That is “a less pleasant or credible lifestyle.” You can’t give drug addict’s credibility by drugging him up and saying he is just fine as long as we keep him drugged up. No, that will never be the best lifestyle choice for him. Neither can people of the homosexual community gain credibility by us offering them a façade of Civil Unions or marriage, because homosexuality can’t get justification that way. I can love the person gripped with misguided affections and hate the mindsets that cause them to suffer self-limiting lifestyles.
    Trish Martin

  • Tony, I hear your heart about good people not doing enough to stand for good morals with courage and conviction. And no, the Church does not condemn members who do not live up to the standards, yet neither should it try to use a façade to justify them or their misguided choices. Yes I do agree that we must lobby our MP’s and keep up the good work that we are doing, however I do not agree that people like Bill Muehlenberg who stand strong on absolutes should shoulder any of the responsibility for the choices of others or weakening political parties. It is my opinion that Labor is in the state that it is in because there is a greatly lessened need for them in today’s society. That is why they are laying down with the Greens, whose policies are radically destructive to humans, although we must be good stewards of our earth. Attempting to give the façade of respect is not the truthful way of integrity. Can I applaud you tony for saying, “it will be crucial to lobby these people hard after the bill is first tabled” and also, “This is not the end; the fight goes on and no one said it would be an easy fight. We must all rise to the challenge.”
    Trish Martin

  • One of my biggest concerns about “gay marriage” is that rather than being about equality (as its advocates say) it’s about force. The “liberals” want to be able to force people who don’t think marriage can be between two people of the same sex, to act like it can be.

    Each time I’ve pointed this out, advocates retort that we don’t allow people to break laws just because of religious grounds, and so no, a schoolteacher who doesn’t address gay parents as though they were married should not be employed by a public school (even if the teacher is perfectly capable of doing their job). In other words, they agree: It’s not about equality, it’s about force.

    If the law goes through and this happens to you, or someone you know, a recent post on a legal website suggests all is not lost. It is possible (but perhaps unlikely) that same sex marriage can be defeated in the High Court. See here: http://cdulawonline.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/gay-marriage-conscience-vote-only-first-step/

    I hope it doesn’t come to this.

    F. T. Alexander, Melbourne

  • Thanks FT

    Yes it certainly is about force. As I document in my new book, all over the Western world the militants are using the heavy hand of the law to crush any dissent and impose their agenda on the rest of society. It is a very real worry indeed.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • A friend of mine made the comment that love doesn’t mean acceptance. Jesus loved the tax collector but he induced change in him not affirm his sinful ways. Jesus loved the woman caught in adultery by not condemning her but told her to sin no more. Sinners want the love but forgo the change that the love directs.
    Aaron Downs

  • Yes quite right Aaron

    I seek to speak to that theme more fully here:

    https://billmuehlenberg.com/2008/08/12/on-biblical-love/

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • I just finished Michael Brown’s “A queer thing happened to America” and have just started yours, Bill. Invaluable reading.

    Dr Brown’s examination of the queering of Universities in the U.S made me alert to this little article in Latrobe’s latest newsletter.

    http://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2011/article/education-policy-and-bullying-in-schools

    Anthony McGregor

  • Thanks for the tip Anthony.

    And yes, Michael Brown’s book is superb. I review it here:

    https://billmuehlenberg.com/2011/05/16/a-review-of-a-queer-thing-happened-to-america-by-michael-l-brown/

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Hi Rob,

    Yes, what you’re referring to did occur to me only a few hours after posting. Quite correct! 🙂 (I wonder if others get what Rob is talking about…)

    Mark Rabich

  • They say it is an ill wind that does not bring some good. Thank you Mark for challenging my view. I did some research and have learned things about homosexuality that I did not know before. I always simply assumed that it was a very small minority of homosexuals that took part in the promiscuity. I was dead wrong. I am thankful that the ‘gay’ lobby took this fight to the definition of marriage, because it is this debate which has caused me to firstly, leap to the defense of civil unions and secondly to test my own assumptions about homosexual lifestyles.
    Ruth Bonnett

  • I appreciate many Christians here believe that belief in their God and religion is the only way that can lead to sanctified marriage. Hence since homosexuality is proscribed biblically, homosexual marriage must surely verboten. But I ask this:

    What of all the male/female marriages between people who are not Christian believers, or indeed who are not believers in any religion of any sort. Clearly they meet the exactly same crtieria as homosexuals for being denied the Christian sanctity of their marriage, in that they are not Christian by your definition (yes, they are human, or at least I hope you think so).

    So are their marriages also to be denounced by this group? Do you favour the banning of Buddhist or Hindu marriage, for example? Or banning civil unions? If not, why not?

    Norman Alexander

  • Thanks Norman

    If you take a basic course in logic you will learn that an argument cannot be sustained if it begins with faulty premises. Lousy premises lead to lousy conclusions. Or more technically speaking, you can have a valid argument, but not a sound argument, if one or more of the premises are not true.

    The case for marriage has nothing directly to do with Christianity or religion of course, but with nature and reality. The institution of marriage has been found in basically every culture throughout human history. All that religion or the state does is recognise and affirm this pre-existing reality. All societies have seen the vital importance of socially sanctioned marriage, for the regulation of human sexuality, and especially for the raising and rearing of the next generation. So I am afraid your “argument” is in fact no such thing.

    And homosexuals obviously are not being denied marriage – they are denying themselves marriage by refusing to play by the rules. So you won’t be getting any tears out of me I am afraid.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Thanks for the response, Bill. I’m curious about your comment that marriage is not about religion at all but for “the regulation of human sexuality, and especially for the raising and rearing of the next generation.” Perhaps you might like to explain what regulation needs to be defined and particularly how it might be enforced.

    Norman Alexander

  • Thanks Norman

    Marriage is and always has been a social institution, so social norms, rules, conventions and stigmas apply. And of course later the rule of law recognicised the already existing social institution of marriage. Because it is so important to keep men and women together in faithful union, especially if and when children result, societies throughout history have had social sanctions in place, and eventually, laws in place, to protect and nourish this most basic and most vital institution. The state and religion thus have simply recognised what societies from time immemorial have been doing with heterosexual marriage.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Could you please define this protective, loving and nourishing environment in which children should be raised.

    Do you see it as a home where children receive affection and support, caring and warmth? Where they are encouraged to learn, to grow, to make the best of their talents and hard work? Where they learn to live with their fellow man and respect all who deserve respect?

    Norman Alexander

  • Thanks Norman

    Yes it is perfectly easy to describe this – it is called the intact two-parent heterosexual married family. A half century of social science research makes it perfectly clear that generally speaking, children do better when raised by their two biological parents, cemented by marriage, than in any other family structure. The mountain of data on this is overwhelming, and the only ones who dismiss it are the ideologues who are pushing their radical activist agendas. But I write this up elsewhere, eg:

    https://billmuehlenberg.com/2010/10/18/why-children-need-a-mother-and-a-father/
    https://billmuehlenberg.com/2002/06/03/fatherlessness-and-the-two-parent-family/
    https://billmuehlenberg.com/2011/09/09/in-praise-of-heterosexual-marriage-and-parenting/

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Hi Bill
    It amazing how a pleasant day in the City of Sydney on Saturday can turn ugly.

    Location: Pitt Street Mall -Sydney (South End adjacent to Market Street)
    Date: Saturday 10 Dec 2011 – 14 days to Xmas
    Time: 2pm approx
    The scene: A trestle stall was set up by the pro Gay Marriage Lobby collecting signatures to support Same Sex Marriage (SSM) located directly in the middle of Pitt Street mall parallel to Market Street with a few well placed posters espousing the evils of capitalism. The stall basically blocked 30% of the path of Christmas shoppers in the mall trying to proceed south to cross Market Street. You had to walk around the table to reach Market Street. Is Christmas a season of good will to all men? Tidings of great Joy you may think.

    No, sadly not much chance in Sydney CBD.

    Along with the team of 4-5 Gay right supporters seated behind the table collecting signatures there was a young guy around 25-30 years old stand on a box yelling into a microphone non stop proclaiming gay tidings of great joy and wisdom
    He said “Afternoon everyone, Sign the petition to support Gay rights. Anyone who won’t support SSM is a bigot and a homophobe. Stop the bigots and the homophobes in society sign the petition now” On and on it went. My sympathies go to any shopkeeper who had to endure this rant for hour after hour.

    I was appalled that I can’t enjoy a pleasant time in my city with my family without gay rights being shoved into my face and into my ears in a busy public place. We are talking here about the Pitt Street shopping area, not Oxford street the well known gay zone of Sydney. The experience nearly ruined my outing with the wife and innocent 4 year old daughter. Sydney has sadly been taken over the unrighteous, vicious and the deceitful. The Lord Mayor Clover Moore has much to answer for.

    While the Christian church stays silent, unfocused, myopic and disorganised (am I being too harsh?) the pro gay juggernaut continues to roll on unashamed and unrepentant, perverting and twisting reality for it’s own benefit.

    If the Gay marriage becomes a reality, Christians and decent people who believe in the family unit and the rights of an innocent child to a mum and dad really have themselves to blame.

    I really don’t believe the Labor party can be relied upon to stand ground against this evil. Labor has sold it’s soul to the Greens and Satan. The party’s moral backbone has turned to jelly and there is now a huge creditability issue. PM Julia Gillard is just flotsam. Gillard has demonstrated that she is not leadership material, she goes with the flow. True leaders don’t. They stand their ground on issues they treasure. If Gillard truly believed in marriage as she stated prior to the election she would have given it her all at the Conference even if the numbers were against her. She didn’t.

    It’s time for fervent Prayer, Fasting and Action to reclaim decency and values in Sydney and across the Nation.
    Is anyone up to the task or is the next overseas holiday or night out of greater interest?

    Phil Browne

  • Why can heterosexuals marry any one they want and homosexuals can’t? The answer is they can’t.
    As a heterosexual I can’t marry my father, my brother, someone who is already married, and as a Christian God commands that I marry another Christian. I can however “fall in love” with one of those people and when I do I must choose whether to obey God or to seek my own desires regardless of the cost to me or others.
    Michael if you are still there. You are not to blame for your son’s suicide. Suicide is the result of a mental illness. A mental illness that makes it impossible for the person to feel loved in any relationship. People might identify the reason for feeling suicidal as being unaccepted for being homosexual or fat or not getting good enough grades but the real reason is far deeper than any of those things.
    Trust me, I’ve been there.
    Kylie Anderson

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