By now most people are aware of the tragic death of Australian model and TV presenter Charlotte Dawson. A lengthy battle with depression resulted in an apparent suicide. It is always extremely sad when anything like this takes place, especially for a relatively young person (she was just 47).
One thing much of the mainstream media is not revealing however is the very clear link to an abortion she had and her depression. Some media outlets did speak to this. The Daily Telegraph for example said this: “Dawson’s personal life was also traumatic after she split in July from her most recent lover, real estate broker Tyrone Corban, 24 years her junior.
“But friends believe she had never really gotten over her marriage to Miller, which ended in divorce after only a year. In her tell-all autobiography Air Kiss And Tell, she revealed she had an abortion because the pregnancy would interfere with Miller’s preparation for the 2000 Olympics — and blamed that for the start of her long battle with depression.”
And the Australian had this brief mention of the abortion connection: “Ms Dawson gave an insight into her life — both her troubles and the highlights — in her autobiography, released late 2012. In the book, Air Kiss and Tell, she revealed she had had an abortion with her former husband, Olympic swimmer Scott Miller, so that he would not have any distractions in the lead up to the Sydney Olympics.
“She had been looking forward to having a baby but sensed ‘hesitation’ in Miller. ‘Everything Scott had done was leading up to this moment and nothing could stand in his way, so it was decided that we would terminate the child and try again later. Who needed a developing foetus when a gold medal was on offer, eh?’
“Ms Dawson wrote that she was alone when she had the termination. In her book she wrote that this was her first experience with depression — a battle she continued to fight for the next 14 years.”
But for daring to point out this connection, some people have been attacked. NSW politician Fred Nile for example highlighted this fact in public, and has been taking the heat for doing so. But despite all the flak, he would not back down. He said in his defence:
“Charlotte Dawson’s story is a sad tragedy as she, like many, is a victim of depression. Her story needs to be told because, if it could happen to a strong and successful woman such as Charlotte, it can happen to anyone. May she finally be at peace. Our sympathy and prayers are with her loved ones.”
And the simple truth is, this is another ugly secret of the abortion industry. Abortion does indeed lead to depression and mental and psychological problems. Women do suffer after an abortion: they can suffer physically, emotionally, and psychologically.
So much so, that a number of support groups exist around the world to help women cope with the after-effects of abortion. Groups such as Women Hurt by Abortion and Victims of Choice deal with women each day who are coming to terms with their abortions.
One counsellor who has dealt with many women who have abortions says this: “One psychological effect we see almost all the time is guilt. Others are suicidal impulses, a sense of loss, or unfulfillment. Mourning, regret and remorse. Withdrawal, loss of confidence in decision-making capabilities.”
Many studies could be referred to here. One longitudinal study published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry found that women who have an abortion are more likely to experience mental health problems later in life, including depression, anxiety and drug and alcohol abuse.
Indeed, the list of reputable studies on this is increasing each year. As but one example, an article recently appeared which listed with full detail and documentation numerous recent studies which demonstrate the harm to women’s mental health because of abortion.
Dr. Priscilla Coleman, Professor of Human Development and Family Studies at Bowling Green State University, said this about the list: “Over 30 studies have been published in just the last 5 years and they add to a body of literature comprised of hundreds of studies published in major medicine and psychology journals throughout the world. The list is provided below and the conscientious reader is encouraged to check the studies out.”
Also, an important book was recently published in Australia by Melinda Tankard Reist entitled Giving Sorrow Words. The book grew out of small ads placed in newspapers and magazines asking for stories of women hurt by abortion. Hundreds of women responded. This book is a collection of some of these stories. It is a painful read.
Every one of the women featured here regrets her decision, mourns the loss of her child, and grieves months and years afterwards. Pro-abortionists try to deny these stories, or explain them away. But they cannot go away. The stories contained in this book are a testimony to the truth that abortion kills little babies. The mothers know it.
And a newer Australian book is also very important to this whole issue. Post-abortion grief counsellor Anne Lastman has listened to over 1000 personal stories of women who have had abortions. It is a very powerful and moving book, especially considering the fact that Anne Lastman had two abortions herself. This is how she describes the plight of the woman who has had an abortion:
“We need to realise that with the termination of the life in the womb, her originally designed womanhood is changed or at best seriously affected, and the person after the abortion is no longer the person she was before. It is almost as if two people die on the surgical table, one physically and one spiritually and emotionally.”
She notes that baby death through abortion is qualitatively different from that from, say, a miscarriage: “Although there is a strong similarity between pregnancy loss and abortion loss, the trauma following abortion is much greater due to the fact of the participation or even volitional aspect of the mother. Although this participation is often little more than the giving of an indifferent consent, and at times this consent given under pressure, the guilt component of her emotions, coupled with the eventual realization of what she has done becomes unbearable.”
She continues, “The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders specifies that a trauma is more severe and longer lasting when the stressor is of human design, as in the volitional aspect, or consent, to the decision to abort.”
Janet Morana records a number of stories of women who have had abortions and live to deeply regret it. These moving stories will not likely make it into the mainstream media, but they need to be told. Let me just share one of those stories with you. An eighty-year-old grandmother told Morana: “My abortion was before Roe v. Wade made abortion legal and it was not in a back alley as we hear people say, but that abortion haunts me to this day.”
She summarises the situation this way: “Women never forget their abortion, even if they eventually find healing. Their memories of their abortions become a permanent part of their lives.” Indeed, “not only did abortion not solve their problems, it created many other physical, psychological, and emotional problems.”
While the pro-abortion lobby and much of the MSM does not want to let these facts get out into the public, the recent tragic death of Dawson is yet another reminder that abortion really is a killer – in more ways than one.
Thank you Bill for your constant efforts at raising the awareness of the ugly truth of abortion out there.
(ps. I’ve been trying to find an article you wrote, but so far unsuccessfully.
It spoke about how not to interpret scripture:
1. Experience -> 2. Form Doctrine -> 3. Find passaged to support.
But rather it should be the exact opposite.
Do you remember this article and can you help me find it please?)
If one thing good can come out of Charlotte’s death, hopefully this discussion in the media can stop the wall of silence and open up to a very real and serious problem that is overlooked and minimized.
Fred Nile will be reviled by some for discussing Charlotte and her abortion depression, but if this makes one woman rethink abortion, it’s worth it.
Thank you very much Bill!
It’s a great article!
Jeremy Hopwood
ACT
A timely essay. Thanks to the irrational feminist and Humanist movements of the last century we have now reached the stage of unborn babies being killed for arbitrary, subjective reasons of convenience, and most outrageously, even for being the “wrong” sex.
On the subject of being depressed, I am inclined to Dr Theodore Dalrymple’s view that the old fashioned word “unhappy” is sometimes to be preferred. If you explore the concepts of happiness and unhappiness, they point to us as moral beings with moral nous and conscience to be honoured. Depression is something for expensive shrinks to throw pills at.
I heard about Dawson and her having the abortion because Miller was preparing for the Sydney Olympics (no surprises it was through social media, not the MSM where truth is concealed). It’s really sad and, not to downplay Dawson’s “choice”, it’s really disgusting on Miller’s part and I hope he will find the forgiveness and healing Jesus offers lest he end up in the same place now that all of this is coming out.
It serves as a real warning to women in our culture to beware the lure of casual sex with uncommitted, good-for-nothing men who eventually encourage or abandon them into not only the non-choice of abortion but also harrowing depression and despair, as in this case.
I recommend the book Abortion: The Ultimate Exploitation of Women by Brian E. Fisher, in which he details how historically it was always men who fueled the promotion and eventual legalization of abortion and why men are the ones who largely encourage abortion through sexual conquest, cowardly passivity, and passing the burden in the name of the “woman’s choice”. He could not be more correct.
It is a disturbing, sickening, and yet encouraging and empowering exhortation for men to abandon passivity, grow a pair, and live up to their responsibility in our sex- and porn-idolatrous culture.
I agree in principal with the thoughts here Bill as usual however as Fred Nile correlated directly and you’ve done in the last paragraph of the statement, it really is pushing the boundaries of not knowing any of the other issues she was dealing with to say that in this case it was directly the sole reason resulting in her death.
I will certainly side with you in saying these sad circumstances are undoubtedly carrying a large burden upon many people who’v had similiar experiences, but we must be careful to label that this event caused it directly as it seems to be being played out by some.
Perhaps it was the sole reason but speculation won’t get us anywhere and isn’t the Godly thing to assume things upon people. Not saying you are directly but let this be a lesson for us all to be wary in labelling things.
Blessings
Thanks Wes. But two big problems here. First, my commenting rules clearly state that I need a full name for a comment to appear here. So I really should not have even posted yours. Second, and more importantly, please tell us all where exactly I said that abortion was “directly the sole reason resulting in her death”. I of course never said that at all, or anything close to it. I suggested a link, or a connection – that is all.
And did you read Fred Nile’s original post on this? He never said that either. There is nothing at all helpful in falsely claiming someone said something, and then shooting it down. That is known as the logical fallacy of the straw man. To be honest, we expect better of Christians in this regard. But bless you too.
Apologies for that I haven’t posted in quite a while and forgot the last name.
I’m simply referring to your last paragraph statement of “the recent tragic death of Dawson is yet another reminder that abortion really is a killer – in more ways than one.”.
Whilst you may not have meant it directly, the tone coming through “in more ways that one” would easily be seen as subtle flame bait inferring that her death ultimately came because of the abortion and if she hadn’t she may not have suffered depression and things ended as tragically as they have.
It’s more that I think small statements like that can be dangerous in inferring such a statement rather than directly saying it.
Yes I have read through Fred’s initial post but again if he didn’t think the abortion was the primary cause he wouldn’t have used it to push his old and consistent political agenda.
An interesting thing thought which i’d ike to hear your thoughts on, Mr Nile said at the bottom of his statement “Rest in Peace”. What are your thoughts on the use of that phrase given our view of the world and whether or not that can be seen to be sending the wrong message to people that all is well when we die?
Thanks again Wes. But my last paragraph was of course a concluding word to everything I had said before. While Dawson was the immediate subject of the article, the bulk of it was to show the very real harm of abortion. It is indeed a killer: mentally, emotionally, psychologically and physically.
And of course neither Fred nor I would have even said anything here, if it were not for the fact that Dawson herself clearly made the link between her abortion and the onset of her depression. Were other factors involved in her eventual suicide? Undoubtedly. All we have said was that abortion – by her own words – seems to have been a real contributing factor. So I repeat: Fred and I nowhere said what you claimed we said. With all due respect, if you rightly want to admonish us to be very careful with how we word things, then you need to begin with yourself here!
As to Fred, he can speak for himself. He was being quite loving and gracious in all that he said, including that line. No one but God of course knows anyone’s ultimate spiritual destiny.
Wes,
The “old and consistent political agenda” sure makes the fight to stop people murdering children sound negative.
There is an older agenda – the one to legalize abortion in the first place, as there was a time when western society was largely in agreement that abortion is sinister and it was uniformly outlawed.
So really, Fred is pushing to bring back past righteousness rather than persist with the true “old and consistent political agenda”, which was successful in legalizing and providing state funding to murder the unborn.
If we aren’t “old and consistent” on the disgusting laws supporting abortion, for what issue should we be?
A fair call Simon.
However my issue with that then is that Fred (and i’m presuming yourself from the way you’ve responded but I may be wrong and happy to be critiqued) are fighting for a set of black and white rules or laws regarding issues such as abortion, euthenasia and gay rights (or the big three as I call them).
Don’t get me wrong. I’m fairly conservative in most matters and would support most of these laws relating to making those practises illegal.
But there in lies the problem. As soon as there is black and white rules regarding such issues, extreme yet rare occurrences that relate to these matters are then forced to be handled in the same way as the majority of instances and I don’t think that is the gracious way to handle things neccessarily.
This is an imperfect world and yet we seem to be trying to force superiorly perfect laws into place without question.
I think of cirumstances where you hear of 8 and 9 year old girls who are raped by their brothers or parents. Or women who have miscarriages where the baby continues to live somehow but the mother then develops infections and dies half way through carrying because an abortion isn’t carried out and both die. Or in the case of homosexulaity, people who are born with both sets of genitals, the parents choose to have one taken off and then the child develops into the opposite of what genitalia they are left with.
Those are of course extremely rare events that I personally know of no one in that situation. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Ignorance can’t excuse fact in that case.
Perhaps this next statement isn’t directly related but I also struggle when people say they are pro life but then say if someone ever came up with a method of increasing lifespan by an unnatural means (e.g. synthetic drugs) they would oppose that. Yet the same people have no issues with people being treated for cancer using chemotherapy or surgery.
I see that as showing partiality towards one thing yet shunning the other because of a personal view, not a biblcal truth.
Of course having said that, I would have a problem with drugs increasing lifespan and I don’t have a problem with surgery being performed to lengthen someones life, but I also think that a solid rule for each of those big three is just not practical in much the same way that I currently think the laws relating to those things are too lax as you do and most of us on this forum are.
Your last statement is a tricky one but again I would refer to the fact that the big three get more air time in media and news and even in church circles from my experience than certain other issues (e.g. supporting pokies by default through superannuation).
I hope that provides a slightly clearer view of where i’m coming from if not happy to elaborate on certain points further…
Thanks Wes, but regrettably your comment demonstrates that you are somewhat out of your depth here on almost all these topics, and you just have not read the relevant literature. So you end up rehashing the same old criticisms and objections which the Christian community has answered quite satisfactorily many times over. Thus your preference for shades of grey instead of black and white is not all that helpful here. Indeed, I would expect anyone claiming to be a biblical Christian to deal in biblical absolutes, and not the 99 shades of grey the secularists and relativists do.
You really need to become conversant in all this, instead of just repeating the tired old lines of the pro-aborts here. My new book on all this will take it much further as well. And sadly you are just as mistaken in your remarks about homosexuality. Had you bothered to read my book on this you would realise that what you are describing (the Intersex condition, such as Turner’s Syndrome) has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality. You really need to get up to speed here on the issues and the debate, instead of just dishing up the same old same old that the other side always does.
And it seems you are also quite unclear about the real nature of what the euthanasia debate is all about. I am not aware of anyone opposing in blanket fashion what you just claimed (BTW, didn’t you just chew me out for doing the same thing!?). No Christian ethicist I am know of decries the use of medicine which might increase life spans. Other considerations may well need to be examined along the way however. And there can be concerns about certain analgesics which may in fact shorten life, if even as a side effect. So you continue to show you are not really up to speed on these issues, and you really need to do some more study here. If you are open to that, I have 36 articles here on the topic which you might peruse: https://billmuehlenberg.com/category/ethics/euthanasia/
Sadly, you continue to be guilty of doing the very thing you have originally chastised us about: not being very careful and clear with wording and terminology. Indeed, I did not even bother to address what can only be described as your rather ugly smear term, “flame bait”.
So I suggest you need to do far more study and research here, instead of just trotting out the usual clichés from the pro-aborts, the pro-homosexuals, and the pro-euthanasia crowd. It should go without saying, but if you want to make a Christian difference in these areas, you have to be sufficiently informed and well read here.
Not that I expect this to be posted as i’m sure you won’t caue you’ve had enough of me 🙂 but I did state that I don’t have a preference for grey and that do in fact majoritively sit on the side of not making the big three illlegal.
I agree 100% with the first link you sent and haven’t currently got time for the second.
The issue i’m making once again is that when these matters are raised from a christian perspective, there is no mention that i’ve heard of coming from the CDP in their policies (e.g. material received at polling stations or articles released via media) of the small percentage and potential solutions or rather ways to deal with those unique circumstances. It is presented as a blanket solution with no excemptions.
Perhaps as you say and i’d like to think that isn’t the case but if that is so I feel there should be more clarity on that very point becuase i’m sorry but myself and others do not have the great freedom and blessing it is that you have to be able to go in depth into all of these topics and policy statements related to such matters. We only get to see entry level info.
I haven’t got a problem with the policy unto itself which I think you are confusing me to have.
You are sounding a little agitated at me (probably with good reason) and I know I am with you regarding the dialog so far so I think i’ll stop over here to get some air but I would say that I stated that “we” meaning all of us (christian bro’s and sis’s) need to be careful in our wording relating to such matters and I didn’t say it was flame bait, just that if any people strayed onto your thoughts of the matter that far liberal left fairies as I like to call them would view it as flame bait and have this kind of convo but even less constructive.
Thanks again for your thoughts and look forward to your future writings on all topics.
Blessings
Darn it I just read that… it’s meant to say “that I do in fact majoritively sit on the side of not making the big three legal.”. Now I do sound liberl haha which I can assure I am anything but
Having counselled post abortion women in the past I can testify that the majority of women never get over it, even 50 years later! The only answer to this grief is an encounter with Jesus Christ who can bring forgiveness and comfort to these women.
The age difference between Charlotte and Scott Miller was about 8 years, she being older than Scott. The baby may have been her only chance at motherhood. She did mention in a later interview how she missed the boat, biologically speaking, to be a mother but she wanted to adopt a child which for some reason never happened.
Thanks again Bill and important topic
and thanks Jeanette for your 7pm comment. Scary stuff.
I was unaware Charlotte committed suicide. For all the fame and fortune and all her so called celebrity friends such as David Koch she still ended an important and valued life with a tragic and terrible death.
I look at myself in the mirror and wonder how many women I meet are in a similar state and I really do nothing or know nothing about how they really are.
Christ calls us to be sensitive and loving with those around us even though we may not support their lifestyle.
The claim of no consequence casual sex / bonking is just such rubbish. Australian men have much to answer for in this abortion debate.
I strongly support Fred Nile but maybe the timing could have been better. Charlotte’s family is probably already going through incredible grief, regret and much retribution.
regards and thanks again
Phil
From a friend’s wall on facebook this morning. He runs a prolife advocacy organisation:
“A message I received through ProLife Generation’s website this morning:
“I’m a 25 years old, pregnant & unemployed. My boyfriend wants me to abort, my parents will hate me for this & have no one to turn to. Please help me keep my baby please”
Abortion does not empower women through woman’s rights. It empowers men to trample on women and abuse them, because there is an “easy way out”. Meanwhile women worldwide are crying out against it.
“Please… help me keep my baby… please”
Thankfully, people are responding and willing to assist this lady financially or how they can.
I appreciate Jeanette’s comment as well. “The only answer to this grief is an encounter with Jesus Christ who can bring forgiveness and comfort to these women.” My heart was actually hardened to my abortion until I encountered Jesus. He first convicted me and then forgave me and only then gave me comfort. It’s been over 30 years now and I still remember it vividly and regret it profoundly. I can’t even comprehend how it must be for women who have had several. I believe that men and women are equally accountable.
Thanks for alerting us to the likely nexus between an abortion and Ms Dawson’s depression and eventual tragic suicide. I had a sister-in-law on whom abortions for for family planning purposes within a lawfully constituted marriage had similar depression and eventually fatal suicidal outcomes.
It is tempting to think of abortion, which, in most cases, involves the physical “invasion” of a woman’s bodily private space, as an experience akin to another similarly physically invasive experience, rape.
Other side-effects from abortion include infertility and breast cancer. But you won’t have the satisfaction of learning about these from the MSM.
Jeanette, you are right. I knew a woman in her eighties who still regretted an abortion fifty years later. She was under pressure because it was during WW2 but it still distressed her that she had killed a baby.
Thank you to the woman who posted a link (in one of Bill’s earlier articles on abortion) to the powerful testimonies of people born as a result of rape. They thanked their birth mothers for their courage in choosing to give them life, as well as their adoptive parents for rearing them. Very moving.
After pointing out that aborting people like Achilles and Aeneas had consequences for history itself, Ovid observed that even wild beasts don’t do such an evil thing.
He ends pleading with the gods to keep Corinna safe after her abortion but finishes his elegy with, “you can punish her second crime!”
Men, like Adam, are prone to sinning wilfully. This results in many men taking advantage of women. However women, like Eve, are prone to being deceived, and many women are deceived about the consequences of abortion. It’s hard to know what he meant, but I do wonder if the Apostle Paul had abortion, amongst other things, in mind when he wrote:
‘… it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.’ (1 Timothy 2:14-15)
Enduring a pregnancy could be God’s instrument for a woman’s salvation.
Hi Bill,
Just to say hi and pray that God will continue to strengthen and give you perfect health.
My students are benefiting from your write-ups and they express their gratitude to you. My last lesson on Apologetics was Alternative Lifestyles with emphasis on homosexuality. Your book, Strained relations: the Challenge of Homosexuality was our main resource. May God bless you. Bill, I can’t thank you enough for furnishing me regularly with your insightful write-ups.
Kwasi
Well written, Bill!
Every abortion is a tragedy, and does immeasurable harm to the child (intended to be fatal), the mother, the father, the doctors and nurses who participate and the society which looks the other way while it pays for it.
Congratulations to Rev Fred Nile for a ‘holistic’ approach in his comments – acknowledging the trauma of depression, the evil of abortion and its insidious consequences; offering comfort to Charlotte Dawson, her family and post-abortive women; and praying for peace for her immortal soul.
Abortion truly is the death that keeps on killing!
Thanks for your article Bill. More of this needs to get out to let men and women know the tragic outcomes at every level with abortion. There are NO winners.
Bill, sorry I am late to this difficult topic.
…she revealed she had had an abortion with her former husband, Olympic swimmer Scott Miller, so that he would not have any distractions in the lead up to the Sydney Olympics.
“She had been looking forward to having a baby but sensed ‘hesitation’ in Miller. ‘Everything Scott had done was leading up to this moment and nothing could stand in his way, so it was decided that we would terminate the child and try again later. Who needed a developing foetus when a gold medal was on offer, eh?’
What a strange way to talk about it “she had an abortion with her former husband…” That’s normally language reserved for babies born. And then “it was decided to terminate the child” and “Who needed a developing foetus”
I hope that in writing the book she was coming to terms with what she did, but it seems that the depression got her before redemption/forgiveness maybe?
So sad, but I pray that God can bring the truth out into the open so that others can be set free.
In the abortion clinic, Dawson began to experience a difficult mix of emotions.
“I then had to reconcile myself to the personal responsibility of having a termination. Should I be feeling guilt and shame? I was challenging my idea that motherhood was an uncomplicated and blissful time, especially for newlyweds,” she wrote.
“I considered the possibility that I might end up being a childless woman, which was a frustrating and demoralizing prospect for me, as I very much wanted to be a mother. What if I couldn’t have another child? What if I’d blown my only chance of motherhood by sacrificing this one?”
Abortion for Dawson was not the liberating self-fulfilling experience that abortion advocates said it would be. Having lost her baby to abortion, she tried to focus on what she still had.
“It was a horrible, sad time for me, but I had to keep reminding myself of what I had. I had a husband, and we were building a life and a home together.”
“I wanted our baby, but I felt greedy, like I already had too much, that the termination was a compromise I should make,” she wrote.
Maybe when we talk about being Pro-life we should somehow include in that phrase “life being in the Hand of God”, because as we know we all die at some stage. Wes, I believe that would solve at least some of the very rare conundrums you mentioned. If you have a 9 year old girl who was raped struggling physically with carrying that baby because of her body size, of course, that is a problem, not to mention the initial problem of the rape, but who is to decide who should die? Do we decide, because we know better than God? Do we think God doesn’t know about the dreadful circumstance this life was conceived in? So, if the 9 year old mother dies because of the pregnancy, who is to blame for that? The man who raped her of course, there is no other blame to assign as far as I can see. How do you tell a 9 year old child she will have to die in order to give birth to a baby? I don’t know, but all I know is to counter a wrong with another wrong never brings a right. That sounds hard, but it is not wrong and doing wrong is worse than hard. In this case of course the baby could be let born early by a cesar. “Having done all to stand” comes to mind. Do everything you can to preserve life and leave the rest in God’s hands, isn’t that part of being a Christian that we trust God even with the bad things?
Many blessings
Ursula Bennett
“But friends believe she had never really gotten over her marriage to Miller, which ended in divorce after only a year. In her tell-all autobiography Air Kiss And Tell, she revealed she had an abortion because the pregnancy would interfere with Miller’s preparation for the 2000 Olympics — and blamed that for the start of her long battle with depression.”
Thank you Bill for your constant efforts at raising the awareness of the ugly truth of abortion out there.
(ps. I’ve been trying to find an article you wrote, but so far unsuccessfully.
It spoke about how not to interpret scripture:
1. Experience -> 2. Form Doctrine -> 3. Find passaged to support.
But rather it should be the exact opposite.
Do you remember this article and can you help me find it please?)
Blessings,
Jeremy Hopwood
ACT
Thanks Jeremy – it is this article:
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2013/08/25/how-not-to-do-church/
If one thing good can come out of Charlotte’s death, hopefully this discussion in the media can stop the wall of silence and open up to a very real and serious problem that is overlooked and minimized.
Fred Nile will be reviled by some for discussing Charlotte and her abortion depression, but if this makes one woman rethink abortion, it’s worth it.
Thank you very much Bill!
It’s a great article!
Jeremy Hopwood
ACT
A timely essay. Thanks to the irrational feminist and Humanist movements of the last century we have now reached the stage of unborn babies being killed for arbitrary, subjective reasons of convenience, and most outrageously, even for being the “wrong” sex.
On the subject of being depressed, I am inclined to Dr Theodore Dalrymple’s view that the old fashioned word “unhappy” is sometimes to be preferred. If you explore the concepts of happiness and unhappiness, they point to us as moral beings with moral nous and conscience to be honoured. Depression is something for expensive shrinks to throw pills at.
I heard about Dawson and her having the abortion because Miller was preparing for the Sydney Olympics (no surprises it was through social media, not the MSM where truth is concealed). It’s really sad and, not to downplay Dawson’s “choice”, it’s really disgusting on Miller’s part and I hope he will find the forgiveness and healing Jesus offers lest he end up in the same place now that all of this is coming out.
It serves as a real warning to women in our culture to beware the lure of casual sex with uncommitted, good-for-nothing men who eventually encourage or abandon them into not only the non-choice of abortion but also harrowing depression and despair, as in this case.
I recommend the book Abortion: The Ultimate Exploitation of Women by Brian E. Fisher, in which he details how historically it was always men who fueled the promotion and eventual legalization of abortion and why men are the ones who largely encourage abortion through sexual conquest, cowardly passivity, and passing the burden in the name of the “woman’s choice”. He could not be more correct.
It is a disturbing, sickening, and yet encouraging and empowering exhortation for men to abandon passivity, grow a pair, and live up to their responsibility in our sex- and porn-idolatrous culture.
http://www.amazon.com/Abortion-The-Ultimate-Exploitation-Women/dp/0989181901
I agree in principal with the thoughts here Bill as usual however as Fred Nile correlated directly and you’ve done in the last paragraph of the statement, it really is pushing the boundaries of not knowing any of the other issues she was dealing with to say that in this case it was directly the sole reason resulting in her death.
I will certainly side with you in saying these sad circumstances are undoubtedly carrying a large burden upon many people who’v had similiar experiences, but we must be careful to label that this event caused it directly as it seems to be being played out by some.
Perhaps it was the sole reason but speculation won’t get us anywhere and isn’t the Godly thing to assume things upon people. Not saying you are directly but let this be a lesson for us all to be wary in labelling things.
Blessings
Thanks Wes. But two big problems here. First, my commenting rules clearly state that I need a full name for a comment to appear here. So I really should not have even posted yours. Second, and more importantly, please tell us all where exactly I said that abortion was “directly the sole reason resulting in her death”. I of course never said that at all, or anything close to it. I suggested a link, or a connection – that is all.
And did you read Fred Nile’s original post on this? He never said that either. There is nothing at all helpful in falsely claiming someone said something, and then shooting it down. That is known as the logical fallacy of the straw man. To be honest, we expect better of Christians in this regard. But bless you too.
Apologies for that I haven’t posted in quite a while and forgot the last name.
I’m simply referring to your last paragraph statement of “the recent tragic death of Dawson is yet another reminder that abortion really is a killer – in more ways than one.”.
Whilst you may not have meant it directly, the tone coming through “in more ways that one” would easily be seen as subtle flame bait inferring that her death ultimately came because of the abortion and if she hadn’t she may not have suffered depression and things ended as tragically as they have.
It’s more that I think small statements like that can be dangerous in inferring such a statement rather than directly saying it.
Yes I have read through Fred’s initial post but again if he didn’t think the abortion was the primary cause he wouldn’t have used it to push his old and consistent political agenda.
An interesting thing thought which i’d ike to hear your thoughts on, Mr Nile said at the bottom of his statement “Rest in Peace”. What are your thoughts on the use of that phrase given our view of the world and whether or not that can be seen to be sending the wrong message to people that all is well when we die?
Thanks again Wes. But my last paragraph was of course a concluding word to everything I had said before. While Dawson was the immediate subject of the article, the bulk of it was to show the very real harm of abortion. It is indeed a killer: mentally, emotionally, psychologically and physically.
And of course neither Fred nor I would have even said anything here, if it were not for the fact that Dawson herself clearly made the link between her abortion and the onset of her depression. Were other factors involved in her eventual suicide? Undoubtedly. All we have said was that abortion – by her own words – seems to have been a real contributing factor. So I repeat: Fred and I nowhere said what you claimed we said. With all due respect, if you rightly want to admonish us to be very careful with how we word things, then you need to begin with yourself here!
As to Fred, he can speak for himself. He was being quite loving and gracious in all that he said, including that line. No one but God of course knows anyone’s ultimate spiritual destiny.
Wes,
The “old and consistent political agenda” sure makes the fight to stop people murdering children sound negative.
There is an older agenda – the one to legalize abortion in the first place, as there was a time when western society was largely in agreement that abortion is sinister and it was uniformly outlawed.
So really, Fred is pushing to bring back past righteousness rather than persist with the true “old and consistent political agenda”, which was successful in legalizing and providing state funding to murder the unborn.
If we aren’t “old and consistent” on the disgusting laws supporting abortion, for what issue should we be?
A fair call Simon.
However my issue with that then is that Fred (and i’m presuming yourself from the way you’ve responded but I may be wrong and happy to be critiqued) are fighting for a set of black and white rules or laws regarding issues such as abortion, euthenasia and gay rights (or the big three as I call them).
Don’t get me wrong. I’m fairly conservative in most matters and would support most of these laws relating to making those practises illegal.
But there in lies the problem. As soon as there is black and white rules regarding such issues, extreme yet rare occurrences that relate to these matters are then forced to be handled in the same way as the majority of instances and I don’t think that is the gracious way to handle things neccessarily.
This is an imperfect world and yet we seem to be trying to force superiorly perfect laws into place without question.
I think of cirumstances where you hear of 8 and 9 year old girls who are raped by their brothers or parents. Or women who have miscarriages where the baby continues to live somehow but the mother then develops infections and dies half way through carrying because an abortion isn’t carried out and both die. Or in the case of homosexulaity, people who are born with both sets of genitals, the parents choose to have one taken off and then the child develops into the opposite of what genitalia they are left with.
Those are of course extremely rare events that I personally know of no one in that situation. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Ignorance can’t excuse fact in that case.
Perhaps this next statement isn’t directly related but I also struggle when people say they are pro life but then say if someone ever came up with a method of increasing lifespan by an unnatural means (e.g. synthetic drugs) they would oppose that. Yet the same people have no issues with people being treated for cancer using chemotherapy or surgery.
I see that as showing partiality towards one thing yet shunning the other because of a personal view, not a biblcal truth.
Of course having said that, I would have a problem with drugs increasing lifespan and I don’t have a problem with surgery being performed to lengthen someones life, but I also think that a solid rule for each of those big three is just not practical in much the same way that I currently think the laws relating to those things are too lax as you do and most of us on this forum are.
Your last statement is a tricky one but again I would refer to the fact that the big three get more air time in media and news and even in church circles from my experience than certain other issues (e.g. supporting pokies by default through superannuation).
I hope that provides a slightly clearer view of where i’m coming from if not happy to elaborate on certain points further…
Thanks Wes, but regrettably your comment demonstrates that you are somewhat out of your depth here on almost all these topics, and you just have not read the relevant literature. So you end up rehashing the same old criticisms and objections which the Christian community has answered quite satisfactorily many times over. Thus your preference for shades of grey instead of black and white is not all that helpful here. Indeed, I would expect anyone claiming to be a biblical Christian to deal in biblical absolutes, and not the 99 shades of grey the secularists and relativists do.
For example, I deal with all the usual mantra-like objections about abortion restrictions because of things like rape, the health of the mother, and so on in a number of articles. Here are just two of them which I suggest you take the time to read and study:
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2008/08/19/abortion-and-hard-cases/
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2013/06/04/abortion-for-the-health-and-life-of-the-mother/
You really need to become conversant in all this, instead of just repeating the tired old lines of the pro-aborts here. My new book on all this will take it much further as well. And sadly you are just as mistaken in your remarks about homosexuality. Had you bothered to read my book on this you would realise that what you are describing (the Intersex condition, such as Turner’s Syndrome) has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality. You really need to get up to speed here on the issues and the debate, instead of just dishing up the same old same old that the other side always does.
And it seems you are also quite unclear about the real nature of what the euthanasia debate is all about. I am not aware of anyone opposing in blanket fashion what you just claimed (BTW, didn’t you just chew me out for doing the same thing!?). No Christian ethicist I am know of decries the use of medicine which might increase life spans. Other considerations may well need to be examined along the way however. And there can be concerns about certain analgesics which may in fact shorten life, if even as a side effect. So you continue to show you are not really up to speed on these issues, and you really need to do some more study here. If you are open to that, I have 36 articles here on the topic which you might peruse: https://billmuehlenberg.com/category/ethics/euthanasia/
Sadly, you continue to be guilty of doing the very thing you have originally chastised us about: not being very careful and clear with wording and terminology. Indeed, I did not even bother to address what can only be described as your rather ugly smear term, “flame bait”.
So I suggest you need to do far more study and research here, instead of just trotting out the usual clichés from the pro-aborts, the pro-homosexuals, and the pro-euthanasia crowd. It should go without saying, but if you want to make a Christian difference in these areas, you have to be sufficiently informed and well read here.
Not that I expect this to be posted as i’m sure you won’t caue you’ve had enough of me 🙂 but I did state that I don’t have a preference for grey and that do in fact majoritively sit on the side of not making the big three illlegal.
I agree 100% with the first link you sent and haven’t currently got time for the second.
The issue i’m making once again is that when these matters are raised from a christian perspective, there is no mention that i’ve heard of coming from the CDP in their policies (e.g. material received at polling stations or articles released via media) of the small percentage and potential solutions or rather ways to deal with those unique circumstances. It is presented as a blanket solution with no excemptions.
Perhaps as you say and i’d like to think that isn’t the case but if that is so I feel there should be more clarity on that very point becuase i’m sorry but myself and others do not have the great freedom and blessing it is that you have to be able to go in depth into all of these topics and policy statements related to such matters. We only get to see entry level info.
I haven’t got a problem with the policy unto itself which I think you are confusing me to have.
You are sounding a little agitated at me (probably with good reason) and I know I am with you regarding the dialog so far so I think i’ll stop over here to get some air but I would say that I stated that “we” meaning all of us (christian bro’s and sis’s) need to be careful in our wording relating to such matters and I didn’t say it was flame bait, just that if any people strayed onto your thoughts of the matter that far liberal left fairies as I like to call them would view it as flame bait and have this kind of convo but even less constructive.
Thanks again for your thoughts and look forward to your future writings on all topics.
Blessings
Darn it I just read that… it’s meant to say “that I do in fact majoritively sit on the side of not making the big three legal.”. Now I do sound liberl haha which I can assure I am anything but
Having counselled post abortion women in the past I can testify that the majority of women never get over it, even 50 years later! The only answer to this grief is an encounter with Jesus Christ who can bring forgiveness and comfort to these women.
The age difference between Charlotte and Scott Miller was about 8 years, she being older than Scott. The baby may have been her only chance at motherhood. She did mention in a later interview how she missed the boat, biologically speaking, to be a mother but she wanted to adopt a child which for some reason never happened.
Thanks again Bill and important topic
and thanks Jeanette for your 7pm comment. Scary stuff.
I was unaware Charlotte committed suicide. For all the fame and fortune and all her so called celebrity friends such as David Koch she still ended an important and valued life with a tragic and terrible death.
I look at myself in the mirror and wonder how many women I meet are in a similar state and I really do nothing or know nothing about how they really are.
Christ calls us to be sensitive and loving with those around us even though we may not support their lifestyle.
The claim of no consequence casual sex / bonking is just such rubbish. Australian men have much to answer for in this abortion debate.
I strongly support Fred Nile but maybe the timing could have been better. Charlotte’s family is probably already going through incredible grief, regret and much retribution.
regards and thanks again
Phil
From a friend’s wall on facebook this morning. He runs a prolife advocacy organisation:
“A message I received through ProLife Generation’s website this morning:
“I’m a 25 years old, pregnant & unemployed. My boyfriend wants me to abort, my parents will hate me for this & have no one to turn to. Please help me keep my baby please”
Abortion does not empower women through woman’s rights. It empowers men to trample on women and abuse them, because there is an “easy way out”. Meanwhile women worldwide are crying out against it.
“Please… help me keep my baby… please”
Thankfully, people are responding and willing to assist this lady financially or how they can.
I appreciate Jeanette’s comment as well. “The only answer to this grief is an encounter with Jesus Christ who can bring forgiveness and comfort to these women.” My heart was actually hardened to my abortion until I encountered Jesus. He first convicted me and then forgave me and only then gave me comfort. It’s been over 30 years now and I still remember it vividly and regret it profoundly. I can’t even comprehend how it must be for women who have had several. I believe that men and women are equally accountable.
Thanks for alerting us to the likely nexus between an abortion and Ms Dawson’s depression and eventual tragic suicide. I had a sister-in-law on whom abortions for for family planning purposes within a lawfully constituted marriage had similar depression and eventually fatal suicidal outcomes.
It is tempting to think of abortion, which, in most cases, involves the physical “invasion” of a woman’s bodily private space, as an experience akin to another similarly physically invasive experience, rape.
Other side-effects from abortion include infertility and breast cancer. But you won’t have the satisfaction of learning about these from the MSM.
Jeanette, you are right. I knew a woman in her eighties who still regretted an abortion fifty years later. She was under pressure because it was during WW2 but it still distressed her that she had killed a baby.
Thank you to the woman who posted a link (in one of Bill’s earlier articles on abortion) to the powerful testimonies of people born as a result of rape. They thanked their birth mothers for their courage in choosing to give them life, as well as their adoptive parents for rearing them. Very moving.
Finally, it’s not only Christians who condemn abortion. The Roman poet Ovid’s condemnation of Corinna’s abortion is well worth a read: http://poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Latin/AmoresBkII.htm#_Toc520535846
After pointing out that aborting people like Achilles and Aeneas had consequences for history itself, Ovid observed that even wild beasts don’t do such an evil thing.
He ends pleading with the gods to keep Corinna safe after her abortion but finishes his elegy with, “you can punish her second crime!”
Men, like Adam, are prone to sinning wilfully. This results in many men taking advantage of women. However women, like Eve, are prone to being deceived, and many women are deceived about the consequences of abortion. It’s hard to know what he meant, but I do wonder if the Apostle Paul had abortion, amongst other things, in mind when he wrote:
‘… it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.’ (1 Timothy 2:14-15)
Enduring a pregnancy could be God’s instrument for a woman’s salvation.
Hi Bill,
Just to say hi and pray that God will continue to strengthen and give you perfect health.
My students are benefiting from your write-ups and they express their gratitude to you. My last lesson on Apologetics was Alternative Lifestyles with emphasis on homosexuality. Your book, Strained relations: the Challenge of Homosexuality was our main resource. May God bless you. Bill, I can’t thank you enough for furnishing me regularly with your insightful write-ups.
Kwasi
Well written, Bill!
Every abortion is a tragedy, and does immeasurable harm to the child (intended to be fatal), the mother, the father, the doctors and nurses who participate and the society which looks the other way while it pays for it.
Congratulations to Rev Fred Nile for a ‘holistic’ approach in his comments – acknowledging the trauma of depression, the evil of abortion and its insidious consequences; offering comfort to Charlotte Dawson, her family and post-abortive women; and praying for peace for her immortal soul.
Abortion truly is the death that keeps on killing!
Thanks for your article Bill. More of this needs to get out to let men and women know the tragic outcomes at every level with abortion. There are NO winners.
Bill, sorry I am late to this difficult topic.
What a strange way to talk about it “she had an abortion with her former husband…” That’s normally language reserved for babies born. And then “it was decided to terminate the child” and “Who needed a developing foetus”
I hope that in writing the book she was coming to terms with what she did, but it seems that the depression got her before redemption/forgiveness maybe?
So sad, but I pray that God can bring the truth out into the open so that others can be set free.
In the abortion clinic, Dawson began to experience a difficult mix of emotions.
“I then had to reconcile myself to the personal responsibility of having a termination. Should I be feeling guilt and shame? I was challenging my idea that motherhood was an uncomplicated and blissful time, especially for newlyweds,” she wrote.
“I considered the possibility that I might end up being a childless woman, which was a frustrating and demoralizing prospect for me, as I very much wanted to be a mother. What if I couldn’t have another child? What if I’d blown my only chance of motherhood by sacrificing this one?”
Abortion for Dawson was not the liberating self-fulfilling experience that abortion advocates said it would be. Having lost her baby to abortion, she tried to focus on what she still had.
“It was a horrible, sad time for me, but I had to keep reminding myself of what I had. I had a husband, and we were building a life and a home together.”
“I wanted our baby, but I felt greedy, like I already had too much, that the termination was a compromise I should make,” she wrote.
Read the full story here: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/aussie-celebrity-admitted-before-committing-suicide-that-her-abortion-cause/
Maybe when we talk about being Pro-life we should somehow include in that phrase “life being in the Hand of God”, because as we know we all die at some stage. Wes, I believe that would solve at least some of the very rare conundrums you mentioned. If you have a 9 year old girl who was raped struggling physically with carrying that baby because of her body size, of course, that is a problem, not to mention the initial problem of the rape, but who is to decide who should die? Do we decide, because we know better than God? Do we think God doesn’t know about the dreadful circumstance this life was conceived in? So, if the 9 year old mother dies because of the pregnancy, who is to blame for that? The man who raped her of course, there is no other blame to assign as far as I can see. How do you tell a 9 year old child she will have to die in order to give birth to a baby? I don’t know, but all I know is to counter a wrong with another wrong never brings a right. That sounds hard, but it is not wrong and doing wrong is worse than hard. In this case of course the baby could be let born early by a cesar. “Having done all to stand” comes to mind. Do everything you can to preserve life and leave the rest in God’s hands, isn’t that part of being a Christian that we trust God even with the bad things?
Many blessings
Ursula Bennett