First the good news: the hardline Islamist who was going to speak on the morality of honour killings has been given the boot. This partially tax-payer funded event was to happen in a few months at Sydney as part of the Festival of Dangerous Ideas. Fortunately because of people power and a large public outcry, this lousy show has been cancelled.
See my original write-up about this outrage here: https://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/06/24/festival-of-deadly-dhimmi-ideas/
I was among the first to make a really big stink about this, and urge others to do the same. It all seems to have paid off. A short FB message from the Sydney Opera House (a sponsor, along with the St James Ethics Centre) appeared soon after:
Sydney Opera House statement on cancellation of Uthman Badar’s session at Festival of Dangerous Ideas 2014: The Festival of Dangerous Ideas is intended to be a provocation to thought and discussion, rather than simply a provocation. It is always a matter of balance and judgement, and in this case a line has been crossed. Accordingly, we have decided not to proceed with the scheduled session with Uthman Badar. It is clear from the public reaction that the title has given the wrong impression of what Mr Badar intended to discuss. Neither Mr Badar, the St James Ethics Centre, nor Sydney Opera House in any way advocates honour killings or condones any form of violence against women.
But now the bad news: Ever since I have spoken about this honour killing talk, I have had plenty of Christians actually come out defending the guy – really. These guys ramble on about ‘we need to hear what he has to say’ and ‘freedom of speech is important’ and ‘we can’t condemn him until we first hear him’ etc, etc.
Oh puh-leeese. No wonder we keep losing here! These folks are utterly clueless as to what Islam is all about, what this radical Islamist is all about, and what real freedom is all about. Guess what dudes: Free speech ends when people want to slice off your heads or burn you with acid. Sorry folks, let’s get real here.
There is never a place for allowing some guy to come around and tell us honour killings are just peachy keen. One might as well argue that we need to give Hitler just one more go here. We need to hear what he has to say. Yeah, let’s hear that again about how we need to massacre all Jews and set up a pure Aryan race.
Well, we don’t want to prejudge the poor boy now do we!? I am staggered at such complete ignorance and cluelessness. These guys say we should let him speak so we can learn what his worldview is all about. Um duh, we already know exactly what his worldview is!
What more do we need to learn here? For heaven’s sake, we have 1400 years of the political ideology of Islam with well over 200 million killed. How much more do we need to know about it!? Respectfully these guys may need to get a bit informed about Islam – and soon!
But if these guys can’t do the hard slog of actually doing a bit of research about this mug, then let me help them out a bit here. As I say, we already know all about Uthman Badar and his group Hizb ut-Tahrir. Well, I do at least.
Perhaps before these guys wax eloquent in their defence of this maniac, they should know what they are talking about. So let me give you just a snippet about this guy. I have been following him for years, and he is a really nasty piece of work.
The truth is, Hizb ut-Tahrir is so radical that it is in fact banned in parts of Europe and the Middle East. Let me just offer a bit of commentary from a 2011 article:
Terrorism experts also warned the group’s activities were “cause for concern”, but said that moves to outlaw them could force their activities underground and make them more appealing to marginalised Muslim youth. Attorney-General Robert McClelland yesterday put the group on notice, saying “any group or individual that promotes violence against Australians should be condemned”.
“The government takes a hard line against groups that advocate terrorism and will act upon advice from its security agencies as to whether they should be proscribed,” he said. Hizb ut-Tahrir spokesman Uthman Badar yesterday defended the group’s draft constitution for their proposed Islamic state, despite it demanding that Muslims who leave the religion “are to be executed” while all males aged 15 or over were “obliged to undergo military training in readiness for jihad”. “Our view is that we adopt the Islamic positions on all these issues,” Mr Badar said.
And he is the same guy who said Australian diggers in Afghanistan are fair game: “You have no business in interfering with the people of the Muslim world. Military occupation should be resisted militarily. People there have a right to resist.”
Nice guy. But these clueless wonders still carry on: ‘Well, we don’t want to turn him into a martyr by cancelling his show’. Martyr smartyr. If I had announced a seminar on the moral justification for decapitating all Muslims in the neighbourhood, it would be pulled, pure and simple – and I would be arrested.
The truth is, the powers that be should also be railing at the bozos at the SOH and St James “Ethics” Centre for giving this show the green light in the first place. Ethics? What ethics? Dhimmi ethics it seems. Heads should be rolling here. Why in the world did these guys allow this to go ahead?
Now that the story has well and truly broke, some voices of sanity are starting to be heard. Says Miranda Devine:
Uthman Badar, the group’s spokesman, was invited to the prestigious Sydney Opera House event in August to deliver a speech titled: “Honour killings are morally justified.” Seriously. Murdering women is not a dangerous idea – it’s a crime.
After pressure from the NSW government, the Opera House last night cancelled the speech, claiming “a line has been crossed”. But why did it and Festival partner, the St James Ethics Centre, offer a platform to Islamist extremists at all? There simply is no justification for the murder of women by relatives who feel she has dishonoured the family, by, say, being raped.
Some ideas in the world really are dangerous, and you only have to look at the horrors unfolding in Syria and Iraq to know that radical Islam is as bad as they come. But to Festival organizers, it was all a game. By inviting Hizb Ut Tahrir to join the rest of the luvvies on stage they made Islamist extremism fashionable. We have trouble enough on that score.
She concludes:
The government has vowed to cancel the passports of homegrown jihadists. But, without proof of terrorist activity, it will be tricky to stop Australian citizens coming home. Just look at the public furore supporting David Hicks, a homegrown jihadist of an earlier generation.
In the end, we have to rely on the skill of our police, and their good relations with the majority of moderate Muslims, who have as much at stake as anyone in stopping the radicalisation of their youth. But what hope is there when Sydney’s fashionable left-wing establishment fetes extremism, as if it is just another dinner party conversation starter.
And a newspaper editorial chimed in:
As a means of controlling and oppressing women, the spectre of honour killings is grotesquely effective. Such brutality has no place anywhere on earth, be it the mountains of Pakistan or the villages of Syria. It certainly has no place in Sydney. The organisers of this utter disgrace may congratulate themselves on winning media attention. Perhaps that was the aim all along.
But media attention will eventually fade, and those organisers will have to live with the fact that they intended to elevate the slaughter of women and girls to the very centre of Sydney’s cultural life. The decision by the Opera House last night to cancel the speech was a victory for commonsense. All it took was for the right-thinking people in the community to speak up.
So yes, some heads should roll here. And maybe some of the clueless Christians should learn to at least do a bit of homework before defending such lunacy. No wonder we keep losing and Islam keeps advancing. When we have rather uninformed Christians doing the work of the jihadists, then we have already lost.
I must say, I despair greatly over radical Islam and stealth jihad. But I may despair even more about Christians who simply do not have a clue – and don’t seem to want to have a clue either.
Bill, now that some ‘feminists’ and media moralists have jumped on the bandwagon denouncing so-called ‘honour killings,’ they should be reminded of the equivalent in many Western countries: abortion.
It is sanctioned by Presidents (Barack Obama), feminists, socialists and liberals of all stripes as a way of killing another human being to ‘keep the family’s honour,’ to gain an ‘honourable education or career,’ to protect the father from being ‘an honourable man,’ etc.
Thanks Bill.
This post was put on Andrew Bolts blog and I think many of your readers would be interested to hear it.
Yes, it was right to ban the speech about honour killings being OK.
Also true that any religion, insofar as it countenances “slicing off heads”, is a false religion.
But are you right to say “we already know” about Islam?
That it has been responsible for “200 million deaths” may not be the point. It will prove a losing argument. Muslims have all heard about the “crusades”.
Some other things we should know about Islam include that they resect Jesus Christ more than do many habitually-blaspheming Australians.
To quote the Second Vatican Council, “They adore one God, living and enduring, merciful and all-powerful, Maker of heaven and earth and Speaker to men. They strive to submit wholeheartedly even to His inscrutable decrees, just as did Abraham, with whom the Islamic faith is pleased to associate itself.
“Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honour Mary, His virgin mother; at times they call on her, too, with devotion. In addition they await the day of judgement when God will give each man his due after raising him up. Consequently, they prize the moral life, and give worship to God especially through prayer, almsgiving, and fasting”.
Unfortunately, Islamic beliefs regarding predestination/fatalism are incompatible with Christianity — something Muslims need to un-learn if they are to understand the love of God aright. The same could perhaps be said for yourself, Mr Muehlenberg.
There are people everywhere whose beliefs are wrong. Which is very sad. Some wrong beliefs are more horrifying and newsworthy results than others.
We need to be careful how we judge. Our church is short on credibility . . . as a result of child-molesting clergy and their mishandling by bishops etc.
During the Roman Empire, the Christian community was persecuted terribly. It was the period when numbers of people turning to the Faith probably grew faster than any other time in history.
Is there a coming Islamic Empire during which we will be massacred? Time will tell. Our job is to be faithful. Which includes being ready to die. Ready to condemn false beliefs — yet always ready to love those who are sinners.
As for despair. Despair is a sin. A sin against the virtue of Hope. A sin against faith in God’s providence.
Was that comment too long? Sorry.
Thanks Arnold. But respectfully, you are wrong on just about everything you say here. Indeed, everything I have talked about in this article is sadly reflected in your not very helpful comment. If you want to know why, then please have a read of the links I provide. I of course am not a Catholic so I don’t buy the clueless and naive misunderstanding that so many Catholics have about Islam. But fortunately there are some Catholics who do know exactly what is going on here. See eg:
And here: billmuehlenberg.com/2013/02/26/a-review-of-christianity-islam-and-atheism-by-william-kilpatrick/
And yes, 200 million dead in the name of Islam is exactly to the point. Next thing you will be telling me is 6 million dead Jews is no way to judge Nazism. We have 1400 years of Islamic blood-letting and jihad. If you want to defend that, you are welcome to try it elsewhere, but not here. Indeed, just go to Saudi Arabia or Iran and try to establish a church there for starters – let us know how that works out for you.
And your silly moral equivalence about violence in Islam and Christianity is shocking to behold. You need to learn a bit more about both religions, and how violence plays a role. See here with these 4 pieces:
And for heaven’s sakes, forget about the determinism. Are you really so unaware of what Islam actually teaches? It is the complete denial that Jesus is the Son of God, died on a cross for our sins, and rose again that needs to be unlearned. But again you expose your lack of understanding here. This rejection of Christ as the Son of God and the cross are core teachings of Islam. To renounce it would be to renounce Islam itself. There is no common ground with a religion that absolutely centres on Christ and the cross, and another that utterly denies and renounces such beliefs as blasphemous. Please, start doing some reading here and get up to speed on these basics.
Of course there will be a time when Christians will be massacred by Muslims. In fact it has been happening for 1400 years now. And it is only made worse by those utterly clueless about the real nature of Islam. How many more Christians will be slaughtered because dhimmi Christians keep their head in the sand, and prefer instead to defend their Muslim captors?
Sorry, if you want to be an apologist for Islam, help yourself. But it won’t be on my site. Way too many Christians are completely in the dark about Islam. It is called dhimmitude, and it is on full display here sadly. That is why the church is losing so often, and why murderous and barbaric Islam is winning. Staggering.
So it is up to you. If you want to inform yourself a bit, then have a read of these pieces where I seek to carefully explain my position in some detail, and come back if you want for more of a chat. But if you mind is already shut here, then I will not be interested in spending more time on this.
What’s surprising it that this talk was even contemplated by the Sydney Opera House and a group which calls itself an Ethics Centre.
In Australia we outlaw discrimination against women, so basically this talk infringed the law.
Can we next year look forward to a talk on “the virtues of cannibalism as a way to create a sustainable population!”? It is beyond ridiculous.
I wonder if you could propose a talk about the Dangerous Idea of not believing in Christ? Do you think they’d allow it to be run?
Hi Bill
Last night, our church hosted a talk by two young Iranian women who had rejected their Islamic heritage and become Christians. They were imprisoned for 259 days in Teheran’s prison. They witnessed another young woman who would not renounce her faith,raped and then beheaded. There was such an outcry at their treatment, the authorities were actually eager to release them. All Mayam and Marziyeh needed to do was declare that Jesus was not divine. This they would not do.
As you state, this fact is the irreconcilable difference between Islam and Christianity. With this as the test of a true Christian, it will be interesting to see how Christadelphians, J.W.’s etc fare in the demonically planned coming caliphate.
Vic
What incredibly brave and faithful women, Vic.
As an Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander person from Northern Territory, I was absolutely disgusted and totally gobsmacked that such a talk or speech was almost going to go ahead! Thank, goodness, someone had some guts to stop it!!! As a Christian, I am very aware of what this Islamic ideology/belief system is about-it’s NOT good & I wouldn’t even give it ‘breathing space’ to be heard! (Australia is a Christian nation-it has a Black History, White History and a Christian History). islam is corrupt, it is evil, it is just plain deception! I truly believe that if people can’t come to Australia and live like Australians in this great country of ours and enjoy its opportunities ie. freedom… employment…. peace, love, joy…. and if they still want to practice their beliefs/ideology, which is oppressive and barbaric, then they need to GO BACK TO THEIR OWN COUNTRY and practice these things, because it’s NOT WELCOME in this country of ours-Australia. I’ve also just finished watching testimonies about muslims converting to Christianity!! Amazing! Thank goodness for that-I’ll continue to pray for them, so that they come to know the TRUTH, and the God who loves and forgives – not a God of violence! Apparently, every hour 600+ muslims come to Christianity! Hallelujah! Jesus is LORD! Amen!
I do not support any proposed speech about honour killings- it is a criminal act! I don’t know how this country can tolerate such barbaric ideology! islam should have NO place at all in our country-in our Australian society!!! Anyone that follows a belief/ideology, mindset, that allows ‘low class, barbaric treatment’ to people -especially women (sharia law) and a ‘god’ that encourages violence, needs their head read! As an indigenous person of this nation, I am fed up with people coming to this country, who are not willing to comply/confirm to our Australian way of living! If they cant’ abide by the rules here, our lifestyle, then they NEED TO GO HOME!!! Australia doesn’t want their barbaric laws here- we don’t need them! Australia is a Christian nation and will always be-Amen!!! Our heritage is based on black history, white history and Christian history. Yes, Afghan traders have played a role here, especially in Central Australia- intermarrying with Aboriginal people, however: THIS IS STILL A CHRISTIAN NATION!!! I will be praying for our country, for the muslims to come to know about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob-the God who loves, who forgives, who has mercy! I also will be praying for Christians to RISE UP in this country and start standing for the TRUTH!!! Blessings to you all….
But if these guys can’t do the hard slog of actually doing a bit of research about this mug, then let me help them out a bit here. As I say, we already know all about Uthman Badar and his group Hizb ut-Tahrir. Well, I do at least.
Well we do have dhimmi Pope in charge, so it is hardly any wonder those “Christians” who barely read the Bible would know any better.
Would those dimwits want to face a criminal charge of ‘aiding and abetting’ terrorism, or murder?
Because by encouraging such vile stuff, that is what they are doing.
Here’s an article in today’s paper about the cancellation and it has an opportunity to vote and comment. http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/festival-of-dangerous-ideas-honour-killings-talk-cancelled-20140624-3arlb.html#poll
Bill, now that some ‘feminists’ and media moralists have jumped on the bandwagon denouncing so-called ‘honour killings,’ they should be reminded of the equivalent in many Western countries: abortion.
It is sanctioned by Presidents (Barack Obama), feminists, socialists and liberals of all stripes as a way of killing another human being to ‘keep the family’s honour,’ to gain an ‘honourable education or career,’ to protect the father from being ‘an honourable man,’ etc.
Thanks Bill.
This post was put on Andrew Bolts blog and I think many of your readers would be interested to hear it.
Yes, it was right to ban the speech about honour killings being OK.
Also true that any religion, insofar as it countenances “slicing off heads”, is a false religion.
But are you right to say “we already know” about Islam?
That it has been responsible for “200 million deaths” may not be the point. It will prove a losing argument. Muslims have all heard about the “crusades”.
Some other things we should know about Islam include that they resect Jesus Christ more than do many habitually-blaspheming Australians.
To quote the Second Vatican Council, “They adore one God, living and enduring, merciful and all-powerful, Maker of heaven and earth and Speaker to men. They strive to submit wholeheartedly even to His inscrutable decrees, just as did Abraham, with whom the Islamic faith is pleased to associate itself.
“Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honour Mary, His virgin mother; at times they call on her, too, with devotion. In addition they await the day of judgement when God will give each man his due after raising him up. Consequently, they prize the moral life, and give worship to God especially through prayer, almsgiving, and fasting”.
Unfortunately, Islamic beliefs regarding predestination/fatalism are incompatible with Christianity — something Muslims need to un-learn if they are to understand the love of God aright. The same could perhaps be said for yourself, Mr Muehlenberg.
There are people everywhere whose beliefs are wrong. Which is very sad. Some wrong beliefs are more horrifying and newsworthy results than others.
We need to be careful how we judge. Our church is short on credibility . . . as a result of child-molesting clergy and their mishandling by bishops etc.
During the Roman Empire, the Christian community was persecuted terribly. It was the period when numbers of people turning to the Faith probably grew faster than any other time in history.
Is there a coming Islamic Empire during which we will be massacred? Time will tell. Our job is to be faithful. Which includes being ready to die. Ready to condemn false beliefs — yet always ready to love those who are sinners.
As for despair. Despair is a sin. A sin against the virtue of Hope. A sin against faith in God’s providence.
Was that comment too long? Sorry.
Thanks Arnold. But respectfully, you are wrong on just about everything you say here. Indeed, everything I have talked about in this article is sadly reflected in your not very helpful comment. If you want to know why, then please have a read of the links I provide. I of course am not a Catholic so I don’t buy the clueless and naive misunderstanding that so many Catholics have about Islam. But fortunately there are some Catholics who do know exactly what is going on here. See eg:
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/06/10/catholics-islam-and-straight-thinking/
And here: billmuehlenberg.com/2013/02/26/a-review-of-christianity-islam-and-atheism-by-william-kilpatrick/
And yes, 200 million dead in the name of Islam is exactly to the point. Next thing you will be telling me is 6 million dead Jews is no way to judge Nazism. We have 1400 years of Islamic blood-letting and jihad. If you want to defend that, you are welcome to try it elsewhere, but not here. Indeed, just go to Saudi Arabia or Iran and try to establish a church there for starters – let us know how that works out for you.
Sorry, the Crusades is one of the biggest furphies which the atheists and Muslim apologists throw around. For a Christian to do the same is sadly most telling. See here for more: https://billmuehlenberg.com/2009/10/11/a-review-of-god%E2%80%99s-battalion-by-rodney-stark/
And your silly moral equivalence about violence in Islam and Christianity is shocking to behold. You need to learn a bit more about both religions, and how violence plays a role. See here with these 4 pieces:
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2010/09/13/violence-in-the-bible-and-the-koran/
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2010/08/01/christianity-other-religions-and-islam/
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2004/11/25/a-closer-look-at-religion-and-violence/
And no, Islam and Christianity are not at all the same, and no we do not worship the same God:
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2011/10/24/no-islam-and-christianity-are-not-the-same/
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2013/03/18/islam-and-christianity-major-differences/
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2013/03/19/islam-and-christianity-competing-worldviews/
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2007/08/19/no-we-do-not-worship-the-same-god/
And for heaven’s sakes, forget about the determinism. Are you really so unaware of what Islam actually teaches? It is the complete denial that Jesus is the Son of God, died on a cross for our sins, and rose again that needs to be unlearned. But again you expose your lack of understanding here. This rejection of Christ as the Son of God and the cross are core teachings of Islam. To renounce it would be to renounce Islam itself. There is no common ground with a religion that absolutely centres on Christ and the cross, and another that utterly denies and renounces such beliefs as blasphemous. Please, start doing some reading here and get up to speed on these basics.
Of course there will be a time when Christians will be massacred by Muslims. In fact it has been happening for 1400 years now. And it is only made worse by those utterly clueless about the real nature of Islam. How many more Christians will be slaughtered because dhimmi Christians keep their head in the sand, and prefer instead to defend their Muslim captors?
Sorry, if you want to be an apologist for Islam, help yourself. But it won’t be on my site. Way too many Christians are completely in the dark about Islam. It is called dhimmitude, and it is on full display here sadly. That is why the church is losing so often, and why murderous and barbaric Islam is winning. Staggering.
So it is up to you. If you want to inform yourself a bit, then have a read of these pieces where I seek to carefully explain my position in some detail, and come back if you want for more of a chat. But if you mind is already shut here, then I will not be interested in spending more time on this.
What’s surprising it that this talk was even contemplated by the Sydney Opera House and a group which calls itself an Ethics Centre.
In Australia we outlaw discrimination against women, so basically this talk infringed the law.
Can we next year look forward to a talk on “the virtues of cannibalism as a way to create a sustainable population!”? It is beyond ridiculous.
I wonder if you could propose a talk about the Dangerous Idea of not believing in Christ? Do you think they’d allow it to be run?
Hi Bill
Last night, our church hosted a talk by two young Iranian women who had rejected their Islamic heritage and become Christians. They were imprisoned for 259 days in Teheran’s prison. They witnessed another young woman who would not renounce her faith,raped and then beheaded. There was such an outcry at their treatment, the authorities were actually eager to release them. All Mayam and Marziyeh needed to do was declare that Jesus was not divine. This they would not do.
As you state, this fact is the irreconcilable difference between Islam and Christianity. With this as the test of a true Christian, it will be interesting to see how Christadelphians, J.W.’s etc fare in the demonically planned coming caliphate.
Vic
What incredibly brave and faithful women, Vic.
As an Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander person from Northern Territory, I was absolutely disgusted and totally gobsmacked that such a talk or speech was almost going to go ahead! Thank, goodness, someone had some guts to stop it!!! As a Christian, I am very aware of what this Islamic ideology/belief system is about-it’s NOT good & I wouldn’t even give it ‘breathing space’ to be heard! (Australia is a Christian nation-it has a Black History, White History and a Christian History). islam is corrupt, it is evil, it is just plain deception! I truly believe that if people can’t come to Australia and live like Australians in this great country of ours and enjoy its opportunities ie. freedom… employment…. peace, love, joy…. and if they still want to practice their beliefs/ideology, which is oppressive and barbaric, then they need to GO BACK TO THEIR OWN COUNTRY and practice these things, because it’s NOT WELCOME in this country of ours-Australia. I’ve also just finished watching testimonies about muslims converting to Christianity!! Amazing! Thank goodness for that-I’ll continue to pray for them, so that they come to know the TRUTH, and the God who loves and forgives – not a God of violence! Apparently, every hour 600+ muslims come to Christianity! Hallelujah! Jesus is LORD! Amen!
I do not support any proposed speech about honour killings- it is a criminal act! I don’t know how this country can tolerate such barbaric ideology! islam should have NO place at all in our country-in our Australian society!!! Anyone that follows a belief/ideology, mindset, that allows ‘low class, barbaric treatment’ to people -especially women (sharia law) and a ‘god’ that encourages violence, needs their head read! As an indigenous person of this nation, I am fed up with people coming to this country, who are not willing to comply/confirm to our Australian way of living! If they cant’ abide by the rules here, our lifestyle, then they NEED TO GO HOME!!! Australia doesn’t want their barbaric laws here- we don’t need them! Australia is a Christian nation and will always be-Amen!!! Our heritage is based on black history, white history and Christian history. Yes, Afghan traders have played a role here, especially in Central Australia- intermarrying with Aboriginal people, however: THIS IS STILL A CHRISTIAN NATION!!! I will be praying for our country, for the muslims to come to know about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob-the God who loves, who forgives, who has mercy! I also will be praying for Christians to RISE UP in this country and start standing for the TRUTH!!! Blessings to you all….