One of the clearest lessons of Scripture is how dangerous it is to go with the crowd. Remember, the crowd preferred Barabbas over Jesus. The crowd usually gets it wrong, and the Christian often must go it alone. Indeed, God often works through a remnant, a minority.
Relying on numbers, on the strength of others, may make sense to the non-believer, but it is not how Christians should operate. Ancient Israel certainly had to learn that lesson over and over again. Remember in Judges 7 how God made Gideon whittle his force of 32,000 fighting men down to just 300 to take Midian.
And we are told exactly why this was so important in Judges 7:2: “The Lord said to Gideon, ‘You have too many men. I cannot deliver Midian into their hands, or Israel would boast against me, “My own strength has saved me”.’” The glory of God must always be preeminent, and learning to trust God, not mere humans, is a perennial lesson needed to be learned by believers.
Indeed, time and time again Israel was warned about obtaining national security through making alliances with pagan rulers and nations. Consider just a few such warnings:
-Exodus 23:31-32 I will give into your hands the people who live in the land, and you will drive them out before you. Do not make a covenant with them or with their gods.
-Joshua 9:14-15 The Israelites sampled their provisions but did not inquire of the LORD. Then Joshua made a treaty of peace with them to let them live, and the leaders of the assembly ratified it by oath.
-2 Chronicles 20:35-37 Later, Jehoshaphat king of Judah made an alliance with Ahaziah king of Israel, whose ways were wicked. He agreed with him to construct a fleet of trading ships. After these were built at Ezion Geber, Eliezer son of Dodavahu of Mareshah prophesied against Jehoshaphat, saying, “Because you have made an alliance with Ahaziah, the LORD will destroy what you have made.” The ships were wrecked and were not able to set sail to trade.
-Isaiah 30:1-3 “Woe to the obstinate children,”
declares the LORD,
“to those who carry out plans that are not mine,
forming an alliance, but not by my Spirit,
heaping sin upon sin;
who go down to Egypt
without consulting me;
who look for help to Pharaoh’s protection,
to Egypt’s shade for refuge.
But Pharaoh’s protection will be to your shame,
Egypt’s shade will bring you disgrace.”
-Hosea 5:13 When Ephraim saw his sickness,
and Judah his sores,
then Ephraim turned to Assyria,
and sent to the great king for help.
But he is not able to cure you,
not able to heal your sores.
-Hosea 8:9-10 For they have gone up to Assyria
like a wild donkey wandering alone.
Ephraim has sold herself to lovers.
Although they have sold themselves among the nations,
I will now gather them together.
They will begin to waste away
under the oppression of the mighty king.
Israel was to trust God alone, not pagan military might. It seems Christians today have failed to learn these lessons. We still look to man to save us, when such hopes are in vain. In the US, millions of so-called Christians are pinning all their hopes on one man: a pagan, immoral and arrogant man no less.
Yet somehow they think God will smile on their alliance with this pagan leader. Somehow they think America can ‘become great again’ if they just give all their allegiance to King Trump. They are, as Scripture so soundly refers to them, fools.
As Psalm 20:7 puts it: “Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the LORD our God.” Trump will not save America. Indeed, there is every possibility he will make things worse – much worse. Yet millions of blind and deluded evangelicals are singing his praises, looking to him to be America’s messiah.
A brilliant article has just recently appeared on all this, and if you are a C. S. Lewis fan you will really enjoy it. Those familiar with Prince Caspian will know the story well. The Narnians are in a bad way, and a character named Nikabrik suggest that if Aslan (God) is not going to come to their rescue, then they need to make an alliance with someone else – no matter how bad. Says Gina Dalfonzo:
Nikabrik has already gone so far as to recruit a sorceress to raise the Witch from the dead. But the others are horrified – so horrified that a battle ensues, joined by the Pevensies and Trumpkin. By the time it’s over, Nikabrik and his allies are dead themselves.
How could one of the good guys in this story become corrupt enough to seek help from someone whose greed, brutality, and lust for power were legendary? As Lewis well knew, it can happen more easily and quickly than one might think. It’s been happening throughout history, ever since the first time the Israelites turned to a godless nation for help instead of trusting God to save them.
One can make a case that it’s happening right now within the conservative movement in the United States.
Which brings us back to the subject of prophetic voices. Did C. S. Lewis foresee the rise of Donald Trump? Not specifically, I’m sure. But Lewis had a remarkable understanding of human nature. He knew what it was like to feel that all hope was lost. And he knew that fear and despair can drive decent people to look for someone, anyone, who projects an appearance of strength.
Through the character of Nikabrik, Lewis explored the depths to which we can fall through fear. The first time Caspian meets Nikabrik, he is waking up after an accident and hears the dwarf’s voice near him, saying, “Kill it. . . . We can’t let it live. It would betray us.” There is absolutely no room in Nikabrik’s mind for the idea that a Telmarine could be good. And at first we can sympathize; his people have suffered greatly under the Telmarines, and he is fiercely loyal to his people – a good quality. But as Lewis frequently warned us, good qualities can be twisted and used for evil purposes.
Nikabrik’s fears are legitimate. His enemies are real and powerful and committed to the annihilation of his entire race. He is right to recognize the need for help. He is wrong to decide that help must come from a force equally merciless—wrong when he tells Caspian, “I’ll believe in anyone or anything . . . that’ll batter these cursed Telmarine barbarians to pieces or drive them out of Narnia. Anyone or anything, Aslan or the White Witch, do you understand?”
When his friend Trufflehunter reminds him that the Witch “was a worse enemy than Miraz and all his race,” Nikabrik’s retort is telling: “Not to Dwarfs, she wasn’t.” His own people and their safety are all that matter to him now. Instead of being an important priority, this has become his only priority – and any attempt to remind him that other considerations exist brings only his contempt and anger.
This is how good people with strong, ingrained values – people who have invested time and money in the sanctity of life, religious liberty, and similarly noble causes – can come to support a man who changes his convictions more often than his shirts. This is how people concerned about the dignity of the office of President end up flocking to a reality-show star who spends his days on Twitter calling people “dumb” and “loser.” This is how some who have professed faith in Jesus Christ are lured by a man who openly puts all his faith in power and money, the very things Christ warned us against prizing too highly. As one wag on Twitter pointed out, “If elected, Donald Trump will be the first US president to own a strip club,” and yet he has the support of Christians who fervently believe that this country needs to clean up its morals.
As Joseph Loconte has observed, the Narnia stories offer us “a view of the world that is both tragic and hopeful. The tragedy lies in the corruption caused by the desire for power, often disguised by appeals to religion and morals.” How dangerously easy it is for the desire for power to take on that disguise – and how easily we Christians fall for it.
Tired of waiting for Aslan – who may be nearer than we think – we turn elsewhere. It doesn’t matter if our candidate hates, bullies, and exploits other people, the reasoning goes, just as long as he’s good to us and gives us what we want. Hatred is a perfectly acceptable weapon, as long as it’s “on our side.”
So said Nikabrik as he prepared to unleash a great evil on the land of Narnia.
C. S. Lewis may have lived well before Donald Trump’s time, but he was prescient about the situation. The only fate that awaits a group that turns against its own core values for the sake of security and power is the fate of Nikabrik.
Now please, don’t get me wrong. I don’t want Clinton or Sanders to get in any more than these folks do. But I want a real conservative to get in, someone like Cruz. I can’t see how someone like Trump can save anything. He changes his tune each passing day. We have no idea what he really stands for.
Indeed, all he stands for is himself. That is not someone we need as leader of the free world. Everett Piper puts it this way:
“But, we need to defeat Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders,” many have said: “Your criticism of Trump only helps them. You need to stop attacking those on ‘our side!’”
My response:
Anyone who is pro-abortion is not on my side. Anyone who calls women “pigs,” “ugly,” “fat” and “pieces of a–” is not on my side. Anyone who mocks the handicapped is not on my side. Anyone who has argued the merits of a government takeover of banks, student loans, the auto industry and healthcare is not on my side. Anyone who has been on the cover of Playboy and proud of it, who brags of his sexual history with multiple women and who owns strip clubs in his casinos is not on my side. Anyone who believes the government can wrest control of the definition of marriage from the church is not on my side. Anyone who ignores the separation of powers and boasts of making the executive branch even more imperial is not on my side.
I’m a conservative. I believe in conserving the dignity of life. I believe in conserving respect for women. I believe in conserving the Constitution. I believe in conserving private property, religious liberty and human freedom. I believe in morality more than I do in money. I hold to principles more than I yearn for power. I trust my Creator more than I do human character. I’d like to think that all this, and more, makes me an informed and thoughtful citizen and voter. I’ve read, I’ve listened and I’ve studied and there is NOTHING, absolutely nothing, in this man’s track record that makes Donald Trump “on my side.”
I refuse to let my desire to win “trump” my moral compass. I will not sell my soul or my university’s to a political process that values victory more than virtue.
No, Donald Trump will not be speaking at Oklahoma Wesleyan University.
“The conservative…will not surrender to the contagion of mass-opinion or the temptations of…power… [I]f he hopes to conserve anything at all, he must make his stand unflinchingly.” Russell Kirk
22 Replies to “Memo to Evangelical Trumpites: Forget the Crowds and Ungodly Alliances”
It sounds like you have made up your mind about Trump, Bill. But I will venture that Trump will work out better than you think. We’ll see soon because I believe after Super Tuesday Trump will be the only plausible alternative to Hillary or Comrade Sanders.
It helps to keep the eternal perspective and I thank you for reminding me about that, but I also think the temporal sphere is largely separate. Some overlap, but on some issues not much. For example an essential issue is immigration and it has almost nothing to do with religiosity, and everything to do with patriotism and national interest.
Thanks Joe. Those who have read my posts know that my mind is not fully made up, especially if he ends up getting the Republican nod. I may grudgingly vote for him, given how bad Hil or Bern will be, but only just. And there is no guarantee whatsoever that he will not be as bad, if not worse.
My mind is made up on this truth: America is basically lost because American Christianity is basically lost. When you have millions of so-called evangelical Christians supporting the most arrogant, immoral, foul-mouthed, ruthless, megalomaniac candidate going – especially when we still have real conservatives and Christians running – then you know the gig is up and America is toast.
And sadly what you said in your second paragraph reminded me of similar sentiments uttered 75 years ago. When Hitler met with Niemoller and other clergy, he shouted to them: “I will protect the German people. You take care of the church. You pastors should worry about getting people to heaven and leave this world to me.”
That was diabolical advice then, and it still is.
Personally I don’t like Trump, he is still sounding and looking too democrat from his Hillary days.
At this point after looking at all the candidates, Trump might be the best of the worst choices the US public has been dumped with.
And hey, God may be planning on using Trump to bring about his own purposes.
Let the people push and push and push, then suddenly give them everything they demand, let them choke on it (I am thinking a certain change in diet from mana that a certain group demanded).
Perhaps things need to get really bad, scare the begingos out of enough people that they might, just might, wake up to themselves and pull back from the spiritual abyss.
Perhaps this truly might be the beginning of God passing judgement on the US, to either leave them to be taken over by their reprobate minds, or otherwise wake them up to them selves.
On can live in hope that they will see what they have done to themselves and pull back and get back on a somewhat straight path.
Bill, I submitted a comment the other day on your article about Christians and Trump. Perhaps I didn’t push the add your comment button or you rejected my comment because you thought it not adhering to your comments policy.
Perhaps you are informed on facts and issues addressed in this interview on Rubio, Cruz and Trump, if not I am sending this to you for your consideration. I think understanding these issues and where Rubio, Cruz and Trump stand is vital to making an informed decision.
As I stated in my previous comment I do not think Trump is a Christian. I do think this election will come down to Clinton vs Trump.
Regards,
Suzanne Wyss
Thanks Suzanne, but there are various reasons why I may not run with a particular comment. I am no fan of those who claim Cruz is a globalist, in bed with Goldman Sachs, and other rather silly claims. I am somewhat concerned about Rubio as well, but do not see him as anywhere near as bad as Trump is. And those who claim Trump is our only hope I believe are clearly mistaken. I have made my case already for my many concerns about Trump, and I will do more such articles in days ahead. And I will also offer some pieces on why I think that on balance someone like Cruz may be the best option thus far available.
So those who want to push Trump to their heart’s content can feel free to do so, but not here I am afraid. But for just a brief reply (more will be said later) see some of these pieces as a rebuttal to the anti-Cruz foolishness, including the laughable claim that we should worry about Cruz and his supposed money contamination, while we somehow think Trump is floating in pristine fashion above all this:
It seems to me Bill, that the pendulum has swung so far to the left that it looks like people are now sick and tired of Obama’s anti-Israel attitude, pro-abortion policies, pro-Islam pledges, pro gay-marriage stance and cool, collected political correctness . I agree that Donald Trump is not President-material, but I can understand the disgust with the current administration and I can understand (in some respects) why Trump has been received well.
The pendulum appears to be swinging back to the other extreme. I’d be surprised if Trump made it all the way to the White House, but, I’ve been wrong before.
Thanks Tim. Yes I too am sick of Obama’s agenda. But why do so many folks think that Trump is actually a conservative, and will undo all of Obama’s agenda? For example, of the things you mentioned, Trump is not pro-Israel, he is not anti-abortion, and he is not anti-homosexual.
So once again, we need to run with candidates who are all these things. Cruz certainly qualifies here.
As a matter of hearing the other side (why some like Trump):
“Given that Sessions is supposed to have written Trump’s immigration plan, this is hardly a surprise. But combined with Christie’s endorsement and Maine Governor LePage’s endorsement, it means that the preference cascade among officeholders has started and it’s only going to increase.
All of the conservatives nattering and bitching about how Trump isn’t a conservative are behind the times and missing the point. It doesn’t matter what your national policies are if you don’t have a nation. First things first. Sen. Sessions recognizes that.” http://voxday.blogspot.com.au/2016/02/jeff-sessions-endorses-trump.html
So for the Trump supporters, one main draw seems to be solving the illegal migrant issue (which is a big issue), otherwise (according to them) there won’t be an actual USA, which would make any other kind of national policy moot.
Thanks Mark, but I already am quite familiar with the “other side”. There are far too many problems here. The idiotic claim that it does not matter what your national policies are would fit perfectly well with a demagogue like Hitler: ‘Just blindly trust me, just elect me – I won’t give you any policy specifics, or any clues as to what I will do, but you know I will “make America great again”. That is the stuff of dictatorship, not freedom and principled conservatism. Only a fool would elect someone like that.
And it is ludicrous in the extreme to suggest that immigration is the only problem facing America, and if that gets fixed, then everything else will just be rosy. Not only are there many other major problems – most of which Trump will never touch, or will make worse – but we already have principled conservatives and Christians who are running who will deal with these problems, including immigration. So this is as weak and unhelpful as it gets for the Trumpites I am afraid.
And when you have known RINOs and moderates like Christie supporting Trump, what does that tell you about Trump? It tells you everything we need to know.
@Bill
Thanks for your reply.
Unfortunately, as you’ve pointed out earlier, the root issue is that American society (including the Christians) has become so messed up in recent decades that’s it come to this.
Thanks Mark. Yes quite so, which is why I wrote two more articles on this looking at the bigger picture:
Both are general in nature but also deal specifically with the 2016 US Presidential elections.
Ted Cruz sold America out by voting for the TPP. If that globalist treaty passes, America as a sovereign nation ceases to exist. Jeff Sessions warned the Senate, in detail, about the disaster in making, yet Cruz voted for fast track. At the time, representatives commented that they had never seen Obama’s White House apply such pressure on anything, including Obamacare. Shouldn’t a true patriot’s first clue be if Obama wants it, it must be bad for America? Obamacare: 2000 pages that Pelosi said, “We have to pass so we can see what is in it”; the secret Iran deal; the secret TPP deal…Cruz and Rubio don’t see a pattern here? Back in September when Trump was the first (and the only candidate) to criticize the TPP, I knew Sessions was advising him. Bill, isn’t it possible that people like Jeff Sessions, Phyllis Schlafly, and Pastor Robert Jeffress might know some things that you don’t about Trump? By the way, I love your work, having just recently found your site. Purchased both ebooks on homosexuality.
I can fully understand disgruntled Americans wanting a change – I do too, and desperately. But I cannot for the life of me see how anyone claiming to be a biblical Christian or a consistent, constitutional conservative could ever think of supporting a life-long liberal and Democrat supporter like Trump. It does my head in.
And your question can easily be turned on its head: Is it possible major conservatives and/or Christians including James Dobson, Michael Brown, Tony Perkins, Thomas Sowell, Glenn Beck, Phil Robertson, Rick Perry, Janet Porter, Matt Barber, Richard Viguirie, and Pam Geller may know some things about Cruz that you don’t?
And given that I am not a Catholic, I don’t think any man is infallible, so a Sessions or a Schlafly can get things wrong at times! I have seen even more odd judgment calls made over the years! But in future articles I will seek to make the case for Cruz, as imperfect as he may be. So I suggest Trumpites wait till then to push their anti-Cruz agendas!
The irrational worship that so many folks offer Trump, coupled with the irrational disdain for folks like Cruz makes my head spin to be honest. So we may have to agree to disagree here. But thanks for your thoughts. Enjoy the books!
This comment from a post at Powerline nails Trump’s appeal:
Scott Wallace · Dayton, Ohio said:
Folks are feeling an absolute furor at the stifling nature of political correctness–it may not be that people are for Donald per se, or what he says, they are just for anyone who thumbs their nose at the Social Justice Warriors and gets away with it–because they know they can’t, and don’t feel justice is being served with every mau-mauing that happens. *If* Donald Trump wins come November, this will be the reason why. People are simply tired of walking on eggshells for no reason they can see, and like the idea of marching on Frankenstein’s PC castle with their torches.
It’s not his policy proposals, it’s the fact he is willing to tell the PC crowd to go eff itself. Because Trump brought his own fame into the game, it means more and is perceived as having more credibility than a Cruz doing it–Trump can be seen as having something to lose himself, having made something of himself outside politics. This being willing to challenge the SJWs–even if in the end he bends and compromises with them–is bringing him the votes. I think a lot of folks know he isn’t a conservative. They don’t care, they just want someone to stand up against the bullies. In this respect, then, he himself being a jerk is not a con, it’s a pro. People want their own SOB to take on the Crybullies and the demographic groups that some folks think are running roughshod on others because they can. And so…Trump.
Thanks Kevin. Sure, plenty of folks are fed up, sick of PC crap, sick of the system, sick of the establishment, sick of both parties, sick of being ignored, sick of being voiceless, etc. I get all that. Tell us something we don’t know! But mere discontent will solve nothing, nor will a mere protest vote. This comment should tip us all off: “I think a lot of folks know he isn’t a conservative”. That is the problem. But I expect both conservatives and Christians to care that he is not. Anybody can be ticked off, lash out, and go for someone who spouts a lot of anti-establishment rhetoric. Sanders is doing that for heaven’s sake! But that has never been enough.
Now more than ever we need a leader who is a principled, constitutional conservative, a person of character, integrity, humility, principle and conviction, and someone who cares not just about the nation, but the one who establishes the nations. Trump of course is none of that. He cares only about one thing: himself. At the end of the day, a Trump imperial presidency may be just as bad as anything Hillary or Bernie can do to the nation. That is why I am urging people to run with someone we need now, like a Cruz, before it is too late. To be honest, if our choice comes down to Clinton, Sanders or Trump, I think America is toast. I really do.
Lastly, all this talk by Trumpites about what a heroic outsider he is is a lot of baloney. He is the biggest insider around, hobnobbing with the Clintons, with Democrats, with snooty celebs, with leftist Hollyweirdians, with aloof elitists, etc. He has nothing whatsoever to do with the common man. So he is the biggest Establishment player around. See here eg: http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-is-the-ultimate-insider-1456447752
I wonder if these evangelicals are the same who supported Obama back in 2008 I really have no idea how the American selection process works, but if ordinary Christians have a say in selecting the candidate for the republican party, they lost the plot earlier on if they did not support Cruz or Carson or Huckabee. I wonder too whether not voting if it comes down to a choice of Trump and Clinton would not be a better option as there doesn’t appear “to be a better of 2 evils”, I have never thought of such a thing before, but if there really isn’t a choice, why vote for something you know is going to be bad either way.
If people think they need to rush in another Darius or Cyrus, they need to remember that Israel would have never thought of such a thing, it is something God did in His time and if God knows America needs that now, He will do it in spite of all our efforts. Saul did it too, he couldn’t wait for God’s timing because he was afraid and took it upon himself to perform the sacrifice when it was not his place to do so. Trusting in and waiting on God is nail-biting stuff, but do it we must or disaster will follow.
Many blessings
Ursula Bennett
Trump is the only candidate to put oppose the Trans Pacific Partnership, “free trade” scheme. Please read about this atrocious globalist scam and tell me why Ted Cruz supports it (could it have something to do with his Goldman Sachs/Council on Foreign Relations wife, perchance?)
Pastor Jeffers said, “If my child is ill, I’m looking for the best doctor, not necessarily a Christian doctor.” By the same token, as a Christian, I’d be voting for the Commander in Chief, not the Pastor in Chief. Of course, I’d choose a Christian with Trump’s good qualities over Trump, but Ted Cruz isn’t that man. Trump has raised an exemplary family as far as I can tell. That’s one of the real fruits by which we can judge a man, imho.
Are you aware that Ted Cruz has a nice behind the scenes financial relationship with Mitch McConnell? That’s something that those who think Cruz is the Christian outsider should know and care about. Not to mention the million dollar sweet loan from Goldman that he ‘forgot’ to list on campaign disclosure statements. There is much more than meets the eye to Mr Cruz.
As far as Trump being an elitist insider, he has from the beginning been open about how businessmen/lobbyists play the political game: buttering the D and R bread. The fact that Trump is the only one exposing the ‘strings’ attached to politicians and the only self-funding candidate say a lot to me about his motivation. A multi-billionaire at his age doesn’t put himself through this meat grinder for his ego. From the first words out of his mouth when he declared in June, people ridiculed his candidacy. Any other man could have been knocked out twenty times already. And he’s not succeeding because too many people like me are somehow magically mesmerized and can’t see his flaws.
Didn’t the Lord use Pharoah, Nebuchadnezzar, Darius, Ahasuerus and others to bless his people? Trump is no Christian, but he’s no pagan emperor either. God is able to make all things work for the good of those who love him.
Anyhow, I know that all of us on the R side truly pray for the Lord’s mercy on America, to forgive, restore, and revive her. If America is lost, and she will be with another Dem victory, I fear the world will descend, as Reagan put it, “into a thousand years of darkness” should the Lord allow it.
OK Kevin, last time. When I hear the same baloney, false charges, foolishness and Trump-philia from you that I get from all the other Trumpbots, then I know you have all been drinking from the same Kool-Aid, and really are beyond rational discussion and moral reasoning.
But most frightening of all is this deluded rhetoric about pagan rulers and God working it all out for good. That is exactly the nonsense deceived Christians said about Hitler. I see no one more likely to become a pagan emperor and despot than Trump. Blind and deceived Christians happily brought Hitler to power, and I see it all happening again in America.
No wonder so many concerned conservatives and Christians are talking about strong delusion descending upon America. I see it so very clearly in the Trump-worshippers. It scares me to death to be honest. So end of our discussion thanks. You can join the Trump groupies on their sites, but not on mine thanks.
Yes sadly you are mistaken – in your worship of Trump. And of course you can’t call me a Cruzbot – because I am not one. I know for a fact that Cruz will not save America, make America great again, restore America, or any of the other idiotic claims the Trumpites keep dishing out. All that any principled and consistent conservative and Christian like Cruz can do is slow down the rot, and maybe give America a few more years, if God’s grace should linger. Cruz knows that, I know that, and all biblical Christians know that.
But the Trumpites really do look upon the Donald as a messiah. And the Christian ones are so beholden to him that they will throw out everything the Bible has ever said about the need for godly rulers and righteousness exalting a nation, etc. and will run 100% with the most pagan, immoral, arrogant, ruthless and self-centred candidate going – all to somehow redeem America. As I said, that scares me even more than the prospect of Hil or Bern getting in – and they bother me no end as well.
Sorry, but I have dealt with far too many folks claiming to be Christians who have simply thrown away their Christianity to support this megalomaniac who will more than likely destroy America even faster than any Dem will. But as I say, we really must end this discussion, since it is clear you are far too enamoured with Trump at this point. I wish you well, and blessings.
On a more general note to those still following this thread, I have to go along with Leonard Ravenhill’s son here:
“Following Israel’s demand for a king, like the nations around them, Samuel repeatedly warned them that if a man with unrestrained passion and ambition became their king, Israel would suffer greatly at his hands (1 Sam. 8:9-22). I call on all those in leadership to let their people know that Trump will guarantee the demise of our nation if he is elected. God promised in His Word that He would tear down the house of the proud (Prov. 15:25). Once again, God’s people face a choice as to whom to choose.”
Hi Bill – Disappointed by your Hitler response. That’s a conversation ender. Good luck.
Thanks Joe – I am disappointed that someone who has a prolife sticker attached to his name seems to blindly support the most pro-abortion (not to mention pro-homosexual, immoral, pagan demagogue) running. That is a conversation ender. God bless.
Israel was to trust God alone, not pagan military might. It seems Christians today have failed to learn these lessons. We still look to man to save us, when such hopes are in vain. In the US, millions of so-called Christians are pinning all their hopes on one man: a pagan, immoral and arrogant man no less.
It sounds like you have made up your mind about Trump, Bill. But I will venture that Trump will work out better than you think. We’ll see soon because I believe after Super Tuesday Trump will be the only plausible alternative to Hillary or Comrade Sanders.
It helps to keep the eternal perspective and I thank you for reminding me about that, but I also think the temporal sphere is largely separate. Some overlap, but on some issues not much. For example an essential issue is immigration and it has almost nothing to do with religiosity, and everything to do with patriotism and national interest.
Thanks Joe. Those who have read my posts know that my mind is not fully made up, especially if he ends up getting the Republican nod. I may grudgingly vote for him, given how bad Hil or Bern will be, but only just. And there is no guarantee whatsoever that he will not be as bad, if not worse.
My mind is made up on this truth: America is basically lost because American Christianity is basically lost. When you have millions of so-called evangelical Christians supporting the most arrogant, immoral, foul-mouthed, ruthless, megalomaniac candidate going – especially when we still have real conservatives and Christians running – then you know the gig is up and America is toast.
And sadly what you said in your second paragraph reminded me of similar sentiments uttered 75 years ago. When Hitler met with Niemoller and other clergy, he shouted to them: “I will protect the German people. You take care of the church. You pastors should worry about getting people to heaven and leave this world to me.”
That was diabolical advice then, and it still is.
Personally I don’t like Trump, he is still sounding and looking too democrat from his Hillary days.
At this point after looking at all the candidates, Trump might be the best of the worst choices the US public has been dumped with.
And hey, God may be planning on using Trump to bring about his own purposes.
Let the people push and push and push, then suddenly give them everything they demand, let them choke on it (I am thinking a certain change in diet from mana that a certain group demanded).
Perhaps things need to get really bad, scare the begingos out of enough people that they might, just might, wake up to themselves and pull back from the spiritual abyss.
Perhaps this truly might be the beginning of God passing judgement on the US, to either leave them to be taken over by their reprobate minds, or otherwise wake them up to them selves.
On can live in hope that they will see what they have done to themselves and pull back and get back on a somewhat straight path.
Bill, I submitted a comment the other day on your article about Christians and Trump. Perhaps I didn’t push the add your comment button or you rejected my comment because you thought it not adhering to your comments policy.
Perhaps you are informed on facts and issues addressed in this interview on Rubio, Cruz and Trump, if not I am sending this to you for your consideration. I think understanding these issues and where Rubio, Cruz and Trump stand is vital to making an informed decision.
http://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2016/02/27/must-listen-stephen-miller-makes-case-against-marco-rubio-in-epic-rant/
If the audio does not work at this site it can be listened to here:
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/02/27/wow-interview-understanding-the-legislative-intents-of-wall-street-funded-senators-marco-rubio-and-ted-cruz/
As I stated in my previous comment I do not think Trump is a Christian. I do think this election will come down to Clinton vs Trump.
Regards,
Suzanne Wyss
Thanks Suzanne, but there are various reasons why I may not run with a particular comment. I am no fan of those who claim Cruz is a globalist, in bed with Goldman Sachs, and other rather silly claims. I am somewhat concerned about Rubio as well, but do not see him as anywhere near as bad as Trump is. And those who claim Trump is our only hope I believe are clearly mistaken. I have made my case already for my many concerns about Trump, and I will do more such articles in days ahead. And I will also offer some pieces on why I think that on balance someone like Cruz may be the best option thus far available.
So those who want to push Trump to their heart’s content can feel free to do so, but not here I am afraid. But for just a brief reply (more will be said later) see some of these pieces as a rebuttal to the anti-Cruz foolishness, including the laughable claim that we should worry about Cruz and his supposed money contamination, while we somehow think Trump is floating in pristine fashion above all this:
http://www.thetempesttimes.com/ted-cruz-globalist-truth/
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/not-just-ted-cruz-most-gop-candidates-have-financial-ties-to-goldman-sachs/
http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/01/22/every-bank-wall-street-owns-donald-trump/
It seems to me Bill, that the pendulum has swung so far to the left that it looks like people are now sick and tired of Obama’s anti-Israel attitude, pro-abortion policies, pro-Islam pledges, pro gay-marriage stance and cool, collected political correctness . I agree that Donald Trump is not President-material, but I can understand the disgust with the current administration and I can understand (in some respects) why Trump has been received well.
The pendulum appears to be swinging back to the other extreme. I’d be surprised if Trump made it all the way to the White House, but, I’ve been wrong before.
Thanks Tim. Yes I too am sick of Obama’s agenda. But why do so many folks think that Trump is actually a conservative, and will undo all of Obama’s agenda? For example, of the things you mentioned, Trump is not pro-Israel, he is not anti-abortion, and he is not anti-homosexual.
So once again, we need to run with candidates who are all these things. Cruz certainly qualifies here.
As a matter of hearing the other side (why some like Trump):
“Given that Sessions is supposed to have written Trump’s immigration plan, this is hardly a surprise. But combined with Christie’s endorsement and Maine Governor LePage’s endorsement, it means that the preference cascade among officeholders has started and it’s only going to increase.
All of the conservatives nattering and bitching about how Trump isn’t a conservative are behind the times and missing the point. It doesn’t matter what your national policies are if you don’t have a nation. First things first. Sen. Sessions recognizes that.”
http://voxday.blogspot.com.au/2016/02/jeff-sessions-endorses-trump.html
So for the Trump supporters, one main draw seems to be solving the illegal migrant issue (which is a big issue), otherwise (according to them) there won’t be an actual USA, which would make any other kind of national policy moot.
Thanks Mark, but I already am quite familiar with the “other side”. There are far too many problems here. The idiotic claim that it does not matter what your national policies are would fit perfectly well with a demagogue like Hitler: ‘Just blindly trust me, just elect me – I won’t give you any policy specifics, or any clues as to what I will do, but you know I will “make America great again”. That is the stuff of dictatorship, not freedom and principled conservatism. Only a fool would elect someone like that.
And it is ludicrous in the extreme to suggest that immigration is the only problem facing America, and if that gets fixed, then everything else will just be rosy. Not only are there many other major problems – most of which Trump will never touch, or will make worse – but we already have principled conservatives and Christians who are running who will deal with these problems, including immigration. So this is as weak and unhelpful as it gets for the Trumpites I am afraid.
And when you have known RINOs and moderates like Christie supporting Trump, what does that tell you about Trump? It tells you everything we need to know.
@Bill
Thanks for your reply.
Unfortunately, as you’ve pointed out earlier, the root issue is that American society (including the Christians) has become so messed up in recent decades that’s it come to this.
Thanks Mark. Yes quite so, which is why I wrote two more articles on this looking at the bigger picture:
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2016/02/23/on-getting-the-government-we-deserve/
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2016/02/27/calvin-on-wicked-rulers-and-gods-judgment/
Both are general in nature but also deal specifically with the 2016 US Presidential elections.
Ted Cruz sold America out by voting for the TPP. If that globalist treaty passes, America as a sovereign nation ceases to exist. Jeff Sessions warned the Senate, in detail, about the disaster in making, yet Cruz voted for fast track. At the time, representatives commented that they had never seen Obama’s White House apply such pressure on anything, including Obamacare. Shouldn’t a true patriot’s first clue be if Obama wants it, it must be bad for America? Obamacare: 2000 pages that Pelosi said, “We have to pass so we can see what is in it”; the secret Iran deal; the secret TPP deal…Cruz and Rubio don’t see a pattern here? Back in September when Trump was the first (and the only candidate) to criticize the TPP, I knew Sessions was advising him. Bill, isn’t it possible that people like Jeff Sessions, Phyllis Schlafly, and Pastor Robert Jeffress might know some things that you don’t about Trump? By the way, I love your work, having just recently found your site. Purchased both ebooks on homosexuality.
Thanks Kevin. Hey, I like your last line! The rest we may have to disagree on. No Cruz has not sold out America and no he is not a globalist. See here for starters: http://www.thetempesttimes.com/ted-cruz-globalist-truth/
As to why Trump is the spitting image of Obama, see here: http://thefederalist.com/2016/02/29/donald-trump-is-the-next-barack-obama/
I can fully understand disgruntled Americans wanting a change – I do too, and desperately. But I cannot for the life of me see how anyone claiming to be a biblical Christian or a consistent, constitutional conservative could ever think of supporting a life-long liberal and Democrat supporter like Trump. It does my head in.
And your question can easily be turned on its head: Is it possible major conservatives and/or Christians including James Dobson, Michael Brown, Tony Perkins, Thomas Sowell, Glenn Beck, Phil Robertson, Rick Perry, Janet Porter, Matt Barber, Richard Viguirie, and Pam Geller may know some things about Cruz that you don’t?
And given that I am not a Catholic, I don’t think any man is infallible, so a Sessions or a Schlafly can get things wrong at times! I have seen even more odd judgment calls made over the years! But in future articles I will seek to make the case for Cruz, as imperfect as he may be. So I suggest Trumpites wait till then to push their anti-Cruz agendas!
The irrational worship that so many folks offer Trump, coupled with the irrational disdain for folks like Cruz makes my head spin to be honest. So we may have to agree to disagree here. But thanks for your thoughts. Enjoy the books!
This comment from a post at Powerline nails Trump’s appeal:
Scott Wallace · Dayton, Ohio said:
Folks are feeling an absolute furor at the stifling nature of political correctness–it may not be that people are for Donald per se, or what he says, they are just for anyone who thumbs their nose at the Social Justice Warriors and gets away with it–because they know they can’t, and don’t feel justice is being served with every mau-mauing that happens. *If* Donald Trump wins come November, this will be the reason why. People are simply tired of walking on eggshells for no reason they can see, and like the idea of marching on Frankenstein’s PC castle with their torches.
It’s not his policy proposals, it’s the fact he is willing to tell the PC crowd to go eff itself. Because Trump brought his own fame into the game, it means more and is perceived as having more credibility than a Cruz doing it–Trump can be seen as having something to lose himself, having made something of himself outside politics. This being willing to challenge the SJWs–even if in the end he bends and compromises with them–is bringing him the votes. I think a lot of folks know he isn’t a conservative. They don’t care, they just want someone to stand up against the bullies. In this respect, then, he himself being a jerk is not a con, it’s a pro. People want their own SOB to take on the Crybullies and the demographic groups that some folks think are running roughshod on others because they can. And so…Trump.
Thanks Kevin. Sure, plenty of folks are fed up, sick of PC crap, sick of the system, sick of the establishment, sick of both parties, sick of being ignored, sick of being voiceless, etc. I get all that. Tell us something we don’t know! But mere discontent will solve nothing, nor will a mere protest vote. This comment should tip us all off: “I think a lot of folks know he isn’t a conservative”. That is the problem. But I expect both conservatives and Christians to care that he is not. Anybody can be ticked off, lash out, and go for someone who spouts a lot of anti-establishment rhetoric. Sanders is doing that for heaven’s sake! But that has never been enough.
Now more than ever we need a leader who is a principled, constitutional conservative, a person of character, integrity, humility, principle and conviction, and someone who cares not just about the nation, but the one who establishes the nations. Trump of course is none of that. He cares only about one thing: himself. At the end of the day, a Trump imperial presidency may be just as bad as anything Hillary or Bernie can do to the nation. That is why I am urging people to run with someone we need now, like a Cruz, before it is too late. To be honest, if our choice comes down to Clinton, Sanders or Trump, I think America is toast. I really do.
Lastly, all this talk by Trumpites about what a heroic outsider he is is a lot of baloney. He is the biggest insider around, hobnobbing with the Clintons, with Democrats, with snooty celebs, with leftist Hollyweirdians, with aloof elitists, etc. He has nothing whatsoever to do with the common man. So he is the biggest Establishment player around. See here eg: http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-is-the-ultimate-insider-1456447752
I wonder if these evangelicals are the same who supported Obama back in 2008 I really have no idea how the American selection process works, but if ordinary Christians have a say in selecting the candidate for the republican party, they lost the plot earlier on if they did not support Cruz or Carson or Huckabee. I wonder too whether not voting if it comes down to a choice of Trump and Clinton would not be a better option as there doesn’t appear “to be a better of 2 evils”, I have never thought of such a thing before, but if there really isn’t a choice, why vote for something you know is going to be bad either way.
If people think they need to rush in another Darius or Cyrus, they need to remember that Israel would have never thought of such a thing, it is something God did in His time and if God knows America needs that now, He will do it in spite of all our efforts. Saul did it too, he couldn’t wait for God’s timing because he was afraid and took it upon himself to perform the sacrifice when it was not his place to do so. Trusting in and waiting on God is nail-biting stuff, but do it we must or disaster will follow.
Many blessings
Ursula Bennett
Trump is the only candidate to put oppose the Trans Pacific Partnership, “free trade” scheme. Please read about this atrocious globalist scam and tell me why Ted Cruz supports it (could it have something to do with his Goldman Sachs/Council on Foreign Relations wife, perchance?)
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/item/22114-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp-agreement-threatens-u-s-sovereignty
Pastor Jeffers said, “If my child is ill, I’m looking for the best doctor, not necessarily a Christian doctor.” By the same token, as a Christian, I’d be voting for the Commander in Chief, not the Pastor in Chief. Of course, I’d choose a Christian with Trump’s good qualities over Trump, but Ted Cruz isn’t that man. Trump has raised an exemplary family as far as I can tell. That’s one of the real fruits by which we can judge a man, imho.
Are you aware that Ted Cruz has a nice behind the scenes financial relationship with Mitch McConnell? That’s something that those who think Cruz is the Christian outsider should know and care about. Not to mention the million dollar sweet loan from Goldman that he ‘forgot’ to list on campaign disclosure statements. There is much more than meets the eye to Mr Cruz.
As far as Trump being an elitist insider, he has from the beginning been open about how businessmen/lobbyists play the political game: buttering the D and R bread. The fact that Trump is the only one exposing the ‘strings’ attached to politicians and the only self-funding candidate say a lot to me about his motivation. A multi-billionaire at his age doesn’t put himself through this meat grinder for his ego. From the first words out of his mouth when he declared in June, people ridiculed his candidacy. Any other man could have been knocked out twenty times already. And he’s not succeeding because too many people like me are somehow magically mesmerized and can’t see his flaws.
Didn’t the Lord use Pharoah, Nebuchadnezzar, Darius, Ahasuerus and others to bless his people? Trump is no Christian, but he’s no pagan emperor either. God is able to make all things work for the good of those who love him.
Anyhow, I know that all of us on the R side truly pray for the Lord’s mercy on America, to forgive, restore, and revive her. If America is lost, and she will be with another Dem victory, I fear the world will descend, as Reagan put it, “into a thousand years of darkness” should the Lord allow it.
OK Kevin, last time. When I hear the same baloney, false charges, foolishness and Trump-philia from you that I get from all the other Trumpbots, then I know you have all been drinking from the same Kool-Aid, and really are beyond rational discussion and moral reasoning.
This crap about Cruz is really getting to be tiring. The simple truth is, almost all the candidates have connections with GS, including your beloved Trump: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/not-just-ted-cruz-most-gop-candidates-have-financial-ties-to-goldman-sachs/
And Trump is the most bought man running. The idea that he is somehow above the lures of money is laughable. He is a slave to his god money and the big banks: http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/01/22/every-bank-wall-street-owns-donald-trump/
And sorry, but I am not a socialist. I actually support the free market, and some free trade agreements, regardless of their imperfections, have their place: http://www.thetempesttimes.com/ted-cruz-globalist-truth/
But most frightening of all is this deluded rhetoric about pagan rulers and God working it all out for good. That is exactly the nonsense deceived Christians said about Hitler. I see no one more likely to become a pagan emperor and despot than Trump. Blind and deceived Christians happily brought Hitler to power, and I see it all happening again in America.
No wonder so many concerned conservatives and Christians are talking about strong delusion descending upon America. I see it so very clearly in the Trump-worshippers. It scares me to death to be honest. So end of our discussion thanks. You can join the Trump groupies on their sites, but not on mine thanks.
Yes sadly you are mistaken – in your worship of Trump. And of course you can’t call me a Cruzbot – because I am not one. I know for a fact that Cruz will not save America, make America great again, restore America, or any of the other idiotic claims the Trumpites keep dishing out. All that any principled and consistent conservative and Christian like Cruz can do is slow down the rot, and maybe give America a few more years, if God’s grace should linger. Cruz knows that, I know that, and all biblical Christians know that.
But the Trumpites really do look upon the Donald as a messiah. And the Christian ones are so beholden to him that they will throw out everything the Bible has ever said about the need for godly rulers and righteousness exalting a nation, etc. and will run 100% with the most pagan, immoral, arrogant, ruthless and self-centred candidate going – all to somehow redeem America. As I said, that scares me even more than the prospect of Hil or Bern getting in – and they bother me no end as well.
Sorry, but I have dealt with far too many folks claiming to be Christians who have simply thrown away their Christianity to support this megalomaniac who will more than likely destroy America even faster than any Dem will. But as I say, we really must end this discussion, since it is clear you are far too enamoured with Trump at this point. I wish you well, and blessings.
On a more general note to those still following this thread, I have to go along with Leonard Ravenhill’s son here:
“Following Israel’s demand for a king, like the nations around them, Samuel repeatedly warned them that if a man with unrestrained passion and ambition became their king, Israel would suffer greatly at his hands (1 Sam. 8:9-22). I call on all those in leadership to let their people know that Trump will guarantee the demise of our nation if he is elected. God promised in His Word that He would tear down the house of the proud (Prov. 15:25). Once again, God’s people face a choice as to whom to choose.”
http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/55508-david-ravenhill-donald-trump-is-a-deceiver
Hi Bill – Disappointed by your Hitler response. That’s a conversation ender. Good luck.
Thanks Joe – I am disappointed that someone who has a prolife sticker attached to his name seems to blindly support the most pro-abortion (not to mention pro-homosexual, immoral, pagan demagogue) running. That is a conversation ender. God bless.