With North America at least very much conscious of natural disasters at the moment, old questions tend to resurface. With a number of massive hurricanes bearing down on America’s southeast, and the biggest earthquake to recently pound Mexico, many people again start asking the bigger questions.
And those questions involve the place of God and his role in the world when all these disasters take place. Is God behind them? Is God trying to get our attention? Is he in fact judging us? These are all important questions to ask, and they have been asked often in the past.
Getting foolproof answers is a bit trickier however. When it comes to the Christian worldview, there are some things we can say about natural disasters with some degree of certainty. For example, here is what Christians can basically know for certain about such matters:
-God certainly can and does judge nations by means of natural disasters.
-When this happened repeatedly in the Old Testament, he made it clear through his prophets what was taking place and why.
-The West today, and the US in particular, are godless, immoral, wicked and evil places that certainly can be ripe for divine judgment now.
But there are some other things we simply cannot say so assuredly. Here is what Christians cannot and do not know for certain about such matters:
-That any particular natural disaster today is indeed the direct judgment of God on people for their sin.
-That any particular sin today is deliberately being judged by God via these natural disasters.
Confusion arises when those things we can know more or less for certain are conflated with the less certain issues. That is, the Old Testament speaks much about these matters, but the New testament, not so much. There is continuity and discontinuity here.
Some of the things that remain the same are of course God and his character. He remains the same, and is just as holy, pure and righteous today as he was in earlier times. So he hates sin as much today as he ever has, and he extends grace and mercy today just as he always has.
But things do differ with the Testaments as to how God can and does relate to the world. I will get to all this in a moment. But first let me mention a few things being said about these recent disasters by various folks. Their varied responses indicate some diversity of opinion here.
In relation to the major storms hitting the US at the moment, one person who happens to be a Christian said this on the social media: “Natural disasters are quite common phenomena in certain areas in the world. STOP blaming God or Trump for that fact.”
He is certainly right to say that US Presidents are not responsible for such things – at least not directly (more on this in a moment). Whether he is right about God is another matter. Then we had the bizarre comments of leftist American actress Jennifer Lawrence.
She said the hurricanes were due to Trump supporters because they don’t believe in man-made climate change! She said, “You know you’re watching these hurricanes now, and it’s really hard especially while promoting this movie, not to feel mother nature’s rage and wrath.”
Long-standing anti-abortion campaigner Randall Terry wrote a book in 1995 called The Judgment of God in which he said these natural disasters are indeed judgments of God on America and the West because of their great evil, especially abortion.
He just put out a public statement the other day about the hurricanes, reaffirming his position, mentioning his book, and including sins like homosexuality as to why God is now judging us. One prominent Christian who also is an actor, Kirk Cameron, took a slightly more nuanced approach to this:
This is not Mother Nature in a bad mood. This is a spectacular display of God’s immense power. When he puts his power on display, it’s never without reason. There’s a purpose. And we may not always understand what that purpose is, but we know it’s not random and we know that weather is sent to cause us to respond to God in humility, awe, and repentance.
So who is right here? Many of these comments contain elements of biblical truth. So let me go back to what we know and don’t know for sure. Even a cursory reading of the Old Testament will reveal that Yahweh frequently judged Israel and the nations, and he did this so very often by what we call natural disasters.
Of course with God directly behind them, we can also call them supernatural disasters. I have gathered at least a hundred examples of this in the OT, in which both Israel as well as the pagan nations of the day were on the receiving end of such direct divine judgment.
Way back in Genesis 12:17 for example we read about how “the Lord inflicted serious diseases on Pharaoh and his household because of Abram’s wife Sarai.” And of course in the first 15 chapters of Exodus we read about the ten plagues inflicted upon Egypt.
The covenant curses and blessings found in Deuteronomy 28 are overwhelmingly couched in these sorts of terms. When Israel violates its covenant with Yahweh and disobeys and sins, we read about these consequences for example in verses 20-24:
The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him. The LORD will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. The LORD will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. The LORD will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.
Plenty of specific cases of this being carried out can be found in the OT. Here are just a few:
-2 Samuel 24:15-17 So the Lord sent a plague on Israel from that morning until the end of the time designated, and seventy thousand of the people from Dan to Beersheba died. When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem,
-Jeremiah 3:2-3 You have defiled the land with your prostitution and wickedness. Therefore the showers have been withheld, and no spring rains have fallen.
-Haggai 1:9-11 “You expected much, but see, it turned out to be little. What you brought home, I blew away. Why?” declares the LORD Almighty. “Because of my house, which remains a ruin, while each of you is busy with your own house. Therefore, because of you the heavens have withheld their dew and the earth its crops. I called for a drought on the fields and the mountains, on the grain, the new wine, the olive oil and everything else the ground produces, on people and livestock, and on all the labor of your hands.”
And God often did the same with pagan nations as well:
-Joshua 10:11 As [the Amorites] fled before Israel on the road down from Beth Horon to Azekah, the LORD hurled large hailstones down on them, and more of them died from the hail than were killed by the swords of the Israelites.
-Jeremiah 27:8 I will punish that nation with the sword, famine and plague.
-Zechariah 14:17-19 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain. If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The LORD will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.
And basically all these acts of divine judgment – or pronouncements of coming judgment – were coupled with a clear, inspired, divine word from God through his prophets. So there was no doubt in these cases as to what was happening and why. But that is the difference between then and now.
Sure, we have plenty of natural disasters occurring today – all over the place. But we do not have the same authoritative, “Thus saith the Lord”. So we need to be a bit more cautious here. Every natural disaster that happens today may or may not be a direct judgment of God on a particular sin.
We just do not know all this with the same assurance that folks in the OT had. Could Hurricane Irma be the direct judgment of God on a sinful and rebellious America? Yes it certainly could be. But I am not a prophet nor the son of a prophet, and I cannot say definitely if it is or it is not.
We do know however that these things can certainly be used to get people’s attention, and help drive them back to God, as Cameron mentioned. So yes we can use these occasions to remind people of the things that matter. But to claim with full assurance that this or that disaster is the direct hand of God, punishing a people for a particular set of sins is something I at least cannot say.
Thus we need a bit of humility and caution here. As I say, such disasters may well be God’s hand of judgment. But we find very little of this type of stuff mentioned in the New Testament. About the only clear passages on this are found in the book of Revelation.
But whether Irma or the Mexican earthquake or the Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami of 2004 were specific, deliberate acts of judgment by God Almighty for particular, specific sins I just cannot say. And we have warnings by Jesus on this.
When the disciples met a man born blind, they asked Jesus if it was his fault or his parent’s fault. Jesus said, ‘neither one – it happened that God’s glory might be made manifest’ (see John 9:1-3). And in Matthew 5:45 he told us that God “causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”
So we must be careful here, and not rush to judgment every time some national tragedy strikes. This is a time for Christians to show compassion and offer help to the victims of these tragedies, not to sit back and gloat over them. We need to have God’s heart on all this.
As I was about to post this, I noticed that Michael Brown had just written on similar things, so let me offer a few lines from him as I close:
As for the cause of these storms, I will leave that to others to decide. Are these satanic attacks? Divine judgments? Completely natural occurrences? The results of global warming? Something else? Again, that is for others to say….
Yet even for those who believe that the Lord is sending these disasters as judgement on America, we must do as Job did many centuries ago. He was convinced that God was responsible for his terrible suffering, yet He knew that his only hope was in God. So what did he do? In the words of a Jewish philosopher, he fled from God to God. That was his only choice….
Right now, towns and cities in our nation are completely overwhelmed, and the rebuilding process will take many years. But that is also a picture of our spiritual state. We are torn apart, divided, and devastated, and the time for rebuilding must begin now. Yet we can only rebuild with the help of our Maker.
Yes indeed. Recall the fuller context of a very familiar passage we often recite:
“When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people, if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land” (2 Chronicles 7:13-14).
24 Replies to “Hurricane Irma: God and Natural Disasters”
Maybe it’s not so much God initiating judgment but rather simply removing His protection over a nation that has turned its back on Him, leaving the nation exposed and vulnerable.
Yes that could well be Warren.
In the passage in Chronicles, it shows that God shut up the heavens so there was no rain etc….
It is his creation and I guess he has the right to do whatever he wants with it despite the fact that he gave man dominion over it.
People say God won’t overrule our free will. Individually he may not but collectively he obviously does. If collectively we choose to sin rather than choose righteousness we are free to do so BUT, he can make it very clear to us his displeasure through the elements and through the natural he can warn us.
As Warren has so aptly said he removes his hand of protection and the end result is that both the righteous and unrighteous suffer.
This verse clearly points out that the answer is in the hands of God’s people. If the YES vote goes thought it will be because God’s people decided not to get involved in matters of State and allow the perverts ride roughshod over us.
If that happens, then what happens afterwards will be laid at the feet of a church that has gone to sleep, preferring the line of least resistance.
And if Bill Sorten becomes Prime Minister he has committed to removing all exceptions to the Act so ministers of religion will be forced to marry two men or two women.
When that happens, matters of State will become matters of religion. But then, it will be too late.
Thanks for putting up the little satirical piece in the previous post. I felt I’d seen it somewhere before (obviously in CultureWatch) and just saw it again today, and figured it was very pertinent (and a bit refreshing). It needed a little edit to “contemporise” it. One of my antagonists on FB thought the best riposte was the “4 people, 14 marriages” meme which, in his mind, proves SSM is justified.
Thanks Bill. And it is worth sharing here again as well:
“Good morning. We want to apply for a marriage licence.”
“Names?”, asked the clerk.
“Tim and Jim Jones.”
“Jones? Are you related? I do see a resemblance.”
“Yes, we’re brothers.”
“Brothers? You can’t get married.”
“Why not? Aren’t you giving marriage licences to same gender couples?”
“Yes, thousands. But we haven’t had any siblings. That’s incest!”
“Incest? No, we are not gay.”
“Not gay? Then why do you want to get married?”
“For the financial benefits, of course. And we do love each other. Besides, we don’t have any other prospects.”
“But we’re issuing marriage licences to gay and lesbian couples who’ve claim they’d been denied equal protection under law. If you are not gay, you can get married to a woman.”
“Wait a minute. A gay man has the same right to marry a woman as I have. But just because I’m straight doesn’t mean I want to marry a woman. I want to marry Jim.”
“And I want to marry Tim, Are you going to discriminate against us just because we are not gay?”
“All right, all right. I’ll give you your license. Next.”
“Hi. We are here to get married.”
“Names?”
“John Smith, Jane James, Robert Green, and June Johnson.”
“Who wants to marry whom?”
“We all want to marry each other.”
“But there are four of you!”
“That’s right. You see, we’re all bisexual. I love Jane and Robert, Jane loves me and June, June loves Robert and Jane, and Robert loves June and me. All of us getting married together is the only way that we can express our sexual preferences in a marital relationship.”
“But we’ve only been granting licenses to gay and lesbian couples.”
“So you’re discriminating against bisexuals!”
“No, it’s just that, well, the traditional idea of marriage is that it’s just for couples.”
“Since when are you standing on tradition?”
“Well, I mean, you have to draw the line somewhere.”
“Who says? There’s no logical reason to limit marriage to couples. The more the better. Besides, we demand our rights! The government says the constitution guarantees equal protection under the law. Give us a marriage licence!”
“All right, all right. Next.”
“Hello, I’d like a marriage licence.”
“In what names?”
“David Anderson.”
“And the other person?”
“That’s all. I want to marry myself.”
“Marry yourself?? What do you mean?”
“Well, my psychiatrist says I have a dual personality, so I want to marry the two together. Maybe I can file a joint income-tax return.”
“That does it! I quit! You people are making a mockery of marriage!”
I am a little confused. You seem to be joining the ‘liberal Christians’ against the Reverend Danny Nalliah and his comment that the Black Saturday bushfires were a direct result of making the slaughter of innocent children legal in Victoria.
The connection for me and many people I know is obvious.
I agree with Warren Mack. It may be God removing his protection but there clearly is a connection.
We must see the signs. We as Christians should be warning the nation what is at stake with this plebiscite. We should not be shy about stating what the folks over at the SES have already stated, that there is an abundance of dry tinder all across the nation. More than in previous years.
God does not start fires but we know He does protect us if we are faithful to his Word, and when we look out at the bush and see all that dry tinder ready to burn we must warn people of the danger that awaits if we defy Him by voting for ssm.
Thanks Peter. Um no, I am not a liberal Christian, as anyone who reads these articles fully knows! I of course did not say a word about Danny Nalliah, who is a friend of mine. What I did say – as anyone who has read this article carefully can see – is I for one cannot tell you if a particular disaster today is or is not the direct judgment of God on a particular sin. As a biblical Christian I believe the biblical canon is closed, so I am not privy to divinely inspired revelation from God as the OT prophets were. Thus I can only hazard a biblically-based guess on anything occurring today. I have no warrant from God to say I am inerrantly and infallibly inspired to comment on such issues.
Peter Law:
Danny Nalliah and the Black Saturday bushfires…
It is always best to quote this event in the correct order. Danny actually referred to a dream he had PRIOR to the fires, after the abortion law was introduced. Later, after the fires, he then REMINDED people of the dream. The media went nutso, saying he was heartlessly using a disaster for political gain, conveniently overlooking the fact that he actually made the comment BEFORE the fires. It was a warning, not a smug “there you go, God cursed you”.
The only media people that got it right was the comedy group that went to his place in the middle of the night with a megaphone, “Do you have any more dreams to tell us Danny?”… Whoops, these guys just ripped open the media blanket and accidentally let out some real facts.
The president calling for prayer (and the prayer for the president) are worth a mention here too. It sure beats Obama and his dhimmi subservience to Islamic leaders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVv0Z9fTawU
Trump might have issues, but his track record of selecting good people and making right decisions makes Obama look like a bad dream.
Tim, thanks for that clarification. I’d only heard that Danny Nalliah said that the Black Saturday bushfires were a direct response to sin – basically the ABC spin. That sounds extreme, and without verification from God, a stretch. I’m not saying he’s wrong – the OT prophet pronouncements were generally fairly extreme too, but without knowing a specific reason for anything the Kirk Cameron approach seems more reasonable to me. And whatever the case such events offer an opportunity for Christians in the area, and those with more specialised skills who are willing to help, to build relationships with folk who otherwise might not want to hear anything from or about God. And of course those outside the area and lacking any special skills can always provide prayer support.
Dear Bill,
IMHO my expectation is God’s actions in the USA to bring people to repentance are far from over. Hurricanes are just the start. I expect California will suffer a very serious earthquake in the next 12 months + possibly a tidal wave soon after. There are many prophecies around this issue, but God’s actions are His business. As was the case was Ninevah, sincere repentance can change the course of events.
However have the hearts of Americans become so hardened (eg Pharaoh) that greater and more powerful events (with greater loss of life) must happen to enable a sincere repentance and returning to God. LA remains the porn capital of the USA.
Some Christians like me also believe there are implications for Australia if SSM is approved, so we must pray earnestly.
God bless
Phil
There are still those within the US who are called by His name, who get on their faces before a Holy God in repentance for our nation, as I’m sure there are in every nation.
People keep throwing Luke 21:25-26 at this, but Jesus never says it will be just one continent. It says “nations,” plural, and fearing those things that are coming on the entire earth.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
To consider America the most ungodly nation is ridiculous. Sin abounds worldwide as it always has.
As for the fires in Montana and elsewhere, those, because of the sheer numbers, seem more like an attack right out of the ISIS handbook.
Dear Tim, I did NOT say Danny Nalliah’s prophecy was smug “there you go, God cursed you”. And I feel it is very wrong for you to vilify a fellow Christian by saying or implying that I did.
The fact the dream was received before to the disaster is proof that this was God speaking through His prophet, not just the man Danny Nalliah speaking.
I do not have the power of prophecy but I do have two eyes which see a very dangerous situation facing us this summer, just as the ballots will come back from us the electors of Australia, and I see this is not the time to turn our backs on God. I pray all Australians will see this too.
God did not make a creation where Jesus had to be crucified from the foundation of and where “moth and rust doth corrupt” for no reason. We either have to learn the easy way or the hard way that order and blessing only comes from one place and that is from God Himself. If it takes a demonstration to make people start to understand that and repent then this is what will happen. That is not to say that things are not complex. We definitely have the added issue of a third of the host of heaven and the majority of mankind working against God. This is what this creation is designed to resolve.
As far as anthropogenic global warming is concerned, I have little doubt that if the entire world was Christian this simply would not be an issue. We also know that the current warming of the climate has occurred in a time when the cycle of climate change would normally have resulted in a minor ice age. God knows what He is doing.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. And on the earth will be anxiety of nations with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 men fainting from fear, and expecting those things which have come on the earth. For the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
(MKJV )
Andrew Mason – hang on a minute. We are talking about the difference between someone who gave a specific prophesy that actually came true, and couch potato Christians pontifying about God’s judgement.
The difference is chalk and cheese.
After the fact anyone can make claims. Before the fact, that is a different story altogether.
So, the spin of the MSM is like people who claim Isaiah 53 was changed to match the death of Jesus. Ha! Try arguing with the Dead Seas Scrolls. Likewise, the MSM has Danny’s pre-dated web newsletter to argue with. Ha! indeed.
I reckon if the event has already happened, keep you mouth shut and help out. There is some scriptural precedent for that.
The tower of Siloam (Luke 13:1-5), where 18 died. Jesus said it was not due to their particular sinfulness, but that everyone needs salvation.
The disciples goading Jesus to call down fire (Sodom style) on the town that rejected them – (Luke 9:54). Jesus told them they were of the wrong spirit and that Jesus didn’t come to judge but to save.
Bill’s examples above of the man born blind, (John 9:1-3) and (Matt 5:45); God gives sun and rain “on the righteous and the unrighteous.”
But if it is a prophesy, before the event, now that’s entirely different…
Hello Bill. Appreciate your writings. Thank you. You say a broad statement “The West today, and U S especially, are godless, immoral, wicked and evil places …”, oh my goodness, the entire world is under the sway of the evil one, not just ‘especially’ the USA. Their are hundreds of thousands of very good, true believing and devout Christians in USA. Just sayin’ for the record. Love and blessings to you.
Clara
Thanks Clara. I singled out America since that is where Irma now is. But sure, there are many true believers there – a remnant – who still stand strong for Christ. I could say the same about Australia: there is a true remnant here, but as a whole it is a godless, immoral, wicked and evil place!
I do not claim to have theological and/or biblical prophetic mastery how God uses nature to correct wayward and unrighteous nations. My elementary, largely stories from my childhood, understanding comes from the stories of Moses, Lot (Sodom and Gomorrah) and the Great Flood etc. I agree with Bill that in the OT God specifically spoke through the prophets, He gave detailed warnings of potential calamity with the option to assuage God’s anger in humility and earnest supplication that God will forgive the sin and heal the land (2 Chrom7:14). God is the same then as He is now, but how the message is delivered i.e. through prophets or signs is one that I cannot personally or theologically verify. However, I do have one thought that may be worth mentioning. Perhaps, what we are facing can also be attributed to the natural cause and effect of a catastrophic event, the Flood. Again, I do not purport to have scientific knowledge or expertise in this area, but food for thought. When God judged the whole earth, He sent a tremendous flood that covered the entire earth, this would have been unfathomably calamitous. The result of the flood left the earth with all the tectonic shifting plates, mountainous ranges, deep seas and a diverse landscape. As beautiful and breathtaking this world is, the earth is broken and wearing out. Not sure where I heard this, I shall quote from memory, ‘the earth we live in now is merely a junkyard compared to its original creation’. Could all the disasters in the world, without having a prophet to specifically state ‘Thus sayeth the Lord’ be increasing naturally due to the result of such a destructive occurrence? Of course, this brings to debate the theological comparison of a literal seven-day creationism versus the theistic-evolutionism. If the earth is indeed young, and the flood occurred to the extent described in the bible, then events like this would occur and likely increase the older the earth gets [Law of thermodynamics, entropy]. An all-powerful God can easily hold back natural disastrous events with a humble and prayerful nation. Concerning hurricane Irma, we can certainly be humbled, pray and tangibly help everyone affected by such disasters, but to attribute this directly to a sinful nation or a particular immoral change to legislation i.e. SSM or legal abortion is one I just cannot say empathically unless God says so. I want to be the salt of the earth and love God’s creation while they heap hate on us, forgive them for they know not what they do. It would be ideal if there remained nation/s dedicated to preserving God’s precepts as we approach His return, all persons in such a society will benefit. All we can do is stand firm to His word and proclaim His love.
Thank you Bill for your longstanding (longsuffering) patience.
Thank you Bill. Once again a faithful man seeking the truth and correction where its needed. Stay strong. God Bless you. Yours in Christ. Debra.
Thanks for that Debra.
Some of the comments here seem to have forgotten that judgement starts with the house of God.
1Pe_4:17 For the time has come for the judgment to begin from the house of God. And if it first begins from us, what will be the end of those disobeying the gospel of God?
(MKJV)
God will use events where they are most likely to create repentance. Judgement has to start with the house of God so that justice will be done properly. The countries that were nominally Christian were the same countries that suffered the worst economic downturn after legalizing SS’M’. Those nations that are essentially write offs were hardly affected at all. God has to work through how less bad people react before approaching what will be need to be done for the worse offenders. It’s how the system is designed to work.
Rev_3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; therefore be zealous and repent.
After God sees what response there is in places like Houston my guess is that He will, over a period of time, move on to places like L.A. but there are probably many cities in between if my judgement is anything to go by. God may have even used Houston as an oblique reference to 1Pet 4:17. Clearly God knows a lot more about what is going on than we do and I suspect there are many people in Houston who think they are Christians but who are really worshiping Mammon. I also do not think it is coincidental that the issue that is determining whether people will be part of the bride of Christ, happens to be marriage. Clearly if you don’t respect marriage you are not a good candidate for a wife.
It is interesting that in Zechariah 14:16-18 speaking of Jesus’ Millennial reign when the survivors will be required to travel to Jerusalem once per year to worship the King of kings at the feast of the Tabernacles. Those families who refuse to comply will suffer from lack of rain and they will receive a plague. Only the 2,000 years grace when earthquakes and famines are prophecised to be present (Matthew 24:7) no reason is given.
I didn’t know till I read Tim’s comment above that President Trump had called for a day of prayer!
I live off the beaten track in Scotland, but still, how come this was not reported more??
Whatever his personal faith may be, or not be, it seems to me very significant. “Those who honour me I will honour”.
May this small step in the right direction be richly blessed to him, to America, and through the West to the whole world.
Making sense of some of the tragedies in storms, and life in general
A friend recently ask me what I thought about the fact a helicopter carrying emergency personnel and supplies crashed while trying to get to folks trapped in the storm. This what came to mind.
The late great Keith Green had a plane on his Texas property. He had a pastor and his kids visiting him. he took them for a plane ride to have an aerial view of this great property God had blessed him with….the plane crashed killing the pastor, his wife, and 5-6 kids plus Keith, the pilot, and two of Keith’s kids.
1982
So where was God?….
Meeting him at the pearly gates asking him why he had 12 people in a 6 seater plane.
Telling him he had big plans for him and the pastor and he screwed it up
God told him that, I’d bet.
Then he said, “Oh well, you’re way ahead of schedule, but at any rate, Well done thou good and faithful servant. enter thou into heaven and enjoy the blessings of the Lord for eternity”
Life is good for some, but sadly and mostly unnecessarily, not all. Christian folks have to fully buy into God’s plan. It’s simpler than most perceive and most often results in receiving a ‘boatload’ of everyday common sense. But It’s more than saying a prayer way back when and then throwing caution ‘to the wind’ in faith. It isn’t a roll of the dice, making less than wise decisions and ‘expecting’ good returns from God. You have to invest daily. It isn’t hard but it isn’t an automatic either. Relationship come from initiating…then reciprocating back. It’s intended to be a continual fun lifetime thing. Far too many Christians are miserable far too much because they drop out (tune out) of reading and listening after Christian kindergarten. They think that kindergarten diploma is an MBA. With that we take too many uncalculated risks in the name faith or we take none, and often we pay the price. God has much he wants to teach each of us, for our own good, our families, our friends, and those we come in contact with daily.
Anyways…. a year later Keith, in heaven, comes back and says, “Hey Lord,, couldn’t you have kept our plane in the air?
Lord says, “Yes, I could have. Remember when Jesus wouldn’t cast himself off the temple to prove a point to the devil after 40 days fasting?…Remember what he said?….What had become common sense for Jesus, is supposed to become common sense enough for you. It really isn’t that difficult to understand and live by….unless you stop at your kindergarten diploma.. Stop tempting the lord your God. Read on….listen….Live and do my work and will, respecting the basic laws of nature I put into place for you, and all humanity in the beginning of time. The big moments you seek, come not from where and when you lead me, but appointed times you realized not, that I lead you.
Keith, “….Oh Yeah!!”
Maybe it’s not so much God initiating judgment but rather simply removing His protection over a nation that has turned its back on Him, leaving the nation exposed and vulnerable.
Yes that could well be Warren.
In the passage in Chronicles, it shows that God shut up the heavens so there was no rain etc….
It is his creation and I guess he has the right to do whatever he wants with it despite the fact that he gave man dominion over it.
People say God won’t overrule our free will. Individually he may not but collectively he obviously does. If collectively we choose to sin rather than choose righteousness we are free to do so BUT, he can make it very clear to us his displeasure through the elements and through the natural he can warn us.
As Warren has so aptly said he removes his hand of protection and the end result is that both the righteous and unrighteous suffer.
This verse clearly points out that the answer is in the hands of God’s people. If the YES vote goes thought it will be because God’s people decided not to get involved in matters of State and allow the perverts ride roughshod over us.
If that happens, then what happens afterwards will be laid at the feet of a church that has gone to sleep, preferring the line of least resistance.
And if Bill Sorten becomes Prime Minister he has committed to removing all exceptions to the Act so ministers of religion will be forced to marry two men or two women.
When that happens, matters of State will become matters of religion. But then, it will be too late.
Thanks for putting up the little satirical piece in the previous post. I felt I’d seen it somewhere before (obviously in CultureWatch) and just saw it again today, and figured it was very pertinent (and a bit refreshing). It needed a little edit to “contemporise” it. One of my antagonists on FB thought the best riposte was the “4 people, 14 marriages” meme which, in his mind, proves SSM is justified.
Thanks Bill. And it is worth sharing here again as well:
“Good morning. We want to apply for a marriage licence.”
“Names?”, asked the clerk.
“Tim and Jim Jones.”
“Jones? Are you related? I do see a resemblance.”
“Yes, we’re brothers.”
“Brothers? You can’t get married.”
“Why not? Aren’t you giving marriage licences to same gender couples?”
“Yes, thousands. But we haven’t had any siblings. That’s incest!”
“Incest? No, we are not gay.”
“Not gay? Then why do you want to get married?”
“For the financial benefits, of course. And we do love each other. Besides, we don’t have any other prospects.”
“But we’re issuing marriage licences to gay and lesbian couples who’ve claim they’d been denied equal protection under law. If you are not gay, you can get married to a woman.”
“Wait a minute. A gay man has the same right to marry a woman as I have. But just because I’m straight doesn’t mean I want to marry a woman. I want to marry Jim.”
“And I want to marry Tim, Are you going to discriminate against us just because we are not gay?”
“All right, all right. I’ll give you your license. Next.”
“Hi. We are here to get married.”
“Names?”
“John Smith, Jane James, Robert Green, and June Johnson.”
“Who wants to marry whom?”
“We all want to marry each other.”
“But there are four of you!”
“That’s right. You see, we’re all bisexual. I love Jane and Robert, Jane loves me and June, June loves Robert and Jane, and Robert loves June and me. All of us getting married together is the only way that we can express our sexual preferences in a marital relationship.”
“But we’ve only been granting licenses to gay and lesbian couples.”
“So you’re discriminating against bisexuals!”
“No, it’s just that, well, the traditional idea of marriage is that it’s just for couples.”
“Since when are you standing on tradition?”
“Well, I mean, you have to draw the line somewhere.”
“Who says? There’s no logical reason to limit marriage to couples. The more the better. Besides, we demand our rights! The government says the constitution guarantees equal protection under the law. Give us a marriage licence!”
“All right, all right. Next.”
“Hello, I’d like a marriage licence.”
“In what names?”
“David Anderson.”
“And the other person?”
“That’s all. I want to marry myself.”
“Marry yourself?? What do you mean?”
“Well, my psychiatrist says I have a dual personality, so I want to marry the two together. Maybe I can file a joint income-tax return.”
“That does it! I quit! You people are making a mockery of marriage!”
I am a little confused. You seem to be joining the ‘liberal Christians’ against the Reverend Danny Nalliah and his comment that the Black Saturday bushfires were a direct result of making the slaughter of innocent children legal in Victoria.
The connection for me and many people I know is obvious.
I agree with Warren Mack. It may be God removing his protection but there clearly is a connection.
We must see the signs. We as Christians should be warning the nation what is at stake with this plebiscite. We should not be shy about stating what the folks over at the SES have already stated, that there is an abundance of dry tinder all across the nation. More than in previous years.
God does not start fires but we know He does protect us if we are faithful to his Word, and when we look out at the bush and see all that dry tinder ready to burn we must warn people of the danger that awaits if we defy Him by voting for ssm.
Thanks Peter. Um no, I am not a liberal Christian, as anyone who reads these articles fully knows! I of course did not say a word about Danny Nalliah, who is a friend of mine. What I did say – as anyone who has read this article carefully can see – is I for one cannot tell you if a particular disaster today is or is not the direct judgment of God on a particular sin. As a biblical Christian I believe the biblical canon is closed, so I am not privy to divinely inspired revelation from God as the OT prophets were. Thus I can only hazard a biblically-based guess on anything occurring today. I have no warrant from God to say I am inerrantly and infallibly inspired to comment on such issues.
Peter Law:
Danny Nalliah and the Black Saturday bushfires…
It is always best to quote this event in the correct order. Danny actually referred to a dream he had PRIOR to the fires, after the abortion law was introduced. Later, after the fires, he then REMINDED people of the dream. The media went nutso, saying he was heartlessly using a disaster for political gain, conveniently overlooking the fact that he actually made the comment BEFORE the fires. It was a warning, not a smug “there you go, God cursed you”.
The only media people that got it right was the comedy group that went to his place in the middle of the night with a megaphone, “Do you have any more dreams to tell us Danny?”… Whoops, these guys just ripped open the media blanket and accidentally let out some real facts.
The president calling for prayer (and the prayer for the president) are worth a mention here too. It sure beats Obama and his dhimmi subservience to Islamic leaders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVv0Z9fTawU
Trump might have issues, but his track record of selecting good people and making right decisions makes Obama look like a bad dream.
Tim, thanks for that clarification. I’d only heard that Danny Nalliah said that the Black Saturday bushfires were a direct response to sin – basically the ABC spin. That sounds extreme, and without verification from God, a stretch. I’m not saying he’s wrong – the OT prophet pronouncements were generally fairly extreme too, but without knowing a specific reason for anything the Kirk Cameron approach seems more reasonable to me. And whatever the case such events offer an opportunity for Christians in the area, and those with more specialised skills who are willing to help, to build relationships with folk who otherwise might not want to hear anything from or about God. And of course those outside the area and lacking any special skills can always provide prayer support.
Dear Bill,
IMHO my expectation is God’s actions in the USA to bring people to repentance are far from over. Hurricanes are just the start. I expect California will suffer a very serious earthquake in the next 12 months + possibly a tidal wave soon after. There are many prophecies around this issue, but God’s actions are His business. As was the case was Ninevah, sincere repentance can change the course of events.
However have the hearts of Americans become so hardened (eg Pharaoh) that greater and more powerful events (with greater loss of life) must happen to enable a sincere repentance and returning to God. LA remains the porn capital of the USA.
Some Christians like me also believe there are implications for Australia if SSM is approved, so we must pray earnestly.
God bless
Phil
There are still those within the US who are called by His name, who get on their faces before a Holy God in repentance for our nation, as I’m sure there are in every nation.
People keep throwing Luke 21:25-26 at this, but Jesus never says it will be just one continent. It says “nations,” plural, and fearing those things that are coming on the entire earth.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
To consider America the most ungodly nation is ridiculous. Sin abounds worldwide as it always has.
As for the fires in Montana and elsewhere, those, because of the sheer numbers, seem more like an attack right out of the ISIS handbook.
Dear Tim, I did NOT say Danny Nalliah’s prophecy was smug “there you go, God cursed you”. And I feel it is very wrong for you to vilify a fellow Christian by saying or implying that I did.
The fact the dream was received before to the disaster is proof that this was God speaking through His prophet, not just the man Danny Nalliah speaking.
I do not have the power of prophecy but I do have two eyes which see a very dangerous situation facing us this summer, just as the ballots will come back from us the electors of Australia, and I see this is not the time to turn our backs on God. I pray all Australians will see this too.
God did not make a creation where Jesus had to be crucified from the foundation of and where “moth and rust doth corrupt” for no reason. We either have to learn the easy way or the hard way that order and blessing only comes from one place and that is from God Himself. If it takes a demonstration to make people start to understand that and repent then this is what will happen. That is not to say that things are not complex. We definitely have the added issue of a third of the host of heaven and the majority of mankind working against God. This is what this creation is designed to resolve.
As far as anthropogenic global warming is concerned, I have little doubt that if the entire world was Christian this simply would not be an issue. We also know that the current warming of the climate has occurred in a time when the cycle of climate change would normally have resulted in a minor ice age. God knows what He is doing.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. And on the earth will be anxiety of nations with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 men fainting from fear, and expecting those things which have come on the earth. For the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
(MKJV )
Andrew Mason – hang on a minute. We are talking about the difference between someone who gave a specific prophesy that actually came true, and couch potato Christians pontifying about God’s judgement.
The difference is chalk and cheese.
After the fact anyone can make claims. Before the fact, that is a different story altogether.
So, the spin of the MSM is like people who claim Isaiah 53 was changed to match the death of Jesus. Ha! Try arguing with the Dead Seas Scrolls. Likewise, the MSM has Danny’s pre-dated web newsletter to argue with. Ha! indeed.
I reckon if the event has already happened, keep you mouth shut and help out. There is some scriptural precedent for that.
The tower of Siloam (Luke 13:1-5), where 18 died. Jesus said it was not due to their particular sinfulness, but that everyone needs salvation.
The disciples goading Jesus to call down fire (Sodom style) on the town that rejected them – (Luke 9:54). Jesus told them they were of the wrong spirit and that Jesus didn’t come to judge but to save.
Bill’s examples above of the man born blind, (John 9:1-3) and (Matt 5:45); God gives sun and rain “on the righteous and the unrighteous.”
But if it is a prophesy, before the event, now that’s entirely different…
Hello Bill. Appreciate your writings. Thank you. You say a broad statement “The West today, and U S especially, are godless, immoral, wicked and evil places …”, oh my goodness, the entire world is under the sway of the evil one, not just ‘especially’ the USA. Their are hundreds of thousands of very good, true believing and devout Christians in USA. Just sayin’ for the record. Love and blessings to you.
Clara
Thanks Clara. I singled out America since that is where Irma now is. But sure, there are many true believers there – a remnant – who still stand strong for Christ. I could say the same about Australia: there is a true remnant here, but as a whole it is a godless, immoral, wicked and evil place!
I do not claim to have theological and/or biblical prophetic mastery how God uses nature to correct wayward and unrighteous nations. My elementary, largely stories from my childhood, understanding comes from the stories of Moses, Lot (Sodom and Gomorrah) and the Great Flood etc. I agree with Bill that in the OT God specifically spoke through the prophets, He gave detailed warnings of potential calamity with the option to assuage God’s anger in humility and earnest supplication that God will forgive the sin and heal the land (2 Chrom7:14). God is the same then as He is now, but how the message is delivered i.e. through prophets or signs is one that I cannot personally or theologically verify. However, I do have one thought that may be worth mentioning. Perhaps, what we are facing can also be attributed to the natural cause and effect of a catastrophic event, the Flood. Again, I do not purport to have scientific knowledge or expertise in this area, but food for thought. When God judged the whole earth, He sent a tremendous flood that covered the entire earth, this would have been unfathomably calamitous. The result of the flood left the earth with all the tectonic shifting plates, mountainous ranges, deep seas and a diverse landscape. As beautiful and breathtaking this world is, the earth is broken and wearing out. Not sure where I heard this, I shall quote from memory, ‘the earth we live in now is merely a junkyard compared to its original creation’. Could all the disasters in the world, without having a prophet to specifically state ‘Thus sayeth the Lord’ be increasing naturally due to the result of such a destructive occurrence? Of course, this brings to debate the theological comparison of a literal seven-day creationism versus the theistic-evolutionism. If the earth is indeed young, and the flood occurred to the extent described in the bible, then events like this would occur and likely increase the older the earth gets [Law of thermodynamics, entropy]. An all-powerful God can easily hold back natural disastrous events with a humble and prayerful nation. Concerning hurricane Irma, we can certainly be humbled, pray and tangibly help everyone affected by such disasters, but to attribute this directly to a sinful nation or a particular immoral change to legislation i.e. SSM or legal abortion is one I just cannot say empathically unless God says so. I want to be the salt of the earth and love God’s creation while they heap hate on us, forgive them for they know not what they do. It would be ideal if there remained nation/s dedicated to preserving God’s precepts as we approach His return, all persons in such a society will benefit. All we can do is stand firm to His word and proclaim His love.
Thank you Bill for your longstanding (longsuffering) patience.
Thank you Bill. Once again a faithful man seeking the truth and correction where its needed. Stay strong. God Bless you. Yours in Christ. Debra.
Thanks for that Debra.
Some of the comments here seem to have forgotten that judgement starts with the house of God.
1Pe_4:17 For the time has come for the judgment to begin from the house of God. And if it first begins from us, what will be the end of those disobeying the gospel of God?
(MKJV)
God will use events where they are most likely to create repentance. Judgement has to start with the house of God so that justice will be done properly. The countries that were nominally Christian were the same countries that suffered the worst economic downturn after legalizing SS’M’. Those nations that are essentially write offs were hardly affected at all. God has to work through how less bad people react before approaching what will be need to be done for the worse offenders. It’s how the system is designed to work.
Rev_3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; therefore be zealous and repent.
After God sees what response there is in places like Houston my guess is that He will, over a period of time, move on to places like L.A. but there are probably many cities in between if my judgement is anything to go by. God may have even used Houston as an oblique reference to 1Pet 4:17. Clearly God knows a lot more about what is going on than we do and I suspect there are many people in Houston who think they are Christians but who are really worshiping Mammon. I also do not think it is coincidental that the issue that is determining whether people will be part of the bride of Christ, happens to be marriage. Clearly if you don’t respect marriage you are not a good candidate for a wife.
It is interesting that in Zechariah 14:16-18 speaking of Jesus’ Millennial reign when the survivors will be required to travel to Jerusalem once per year to worship the King of kings at the feast of the Tabernacles. Those families who refuse to comply will suffer from lack of rain and they will receive a plague. Only the 2,000 years grace when earthquakes and famines are prophecised to be present (Matthew 24:7) no reason is given.
I didn’t know till I read Tim’s comment above that President Trump had called for a day of prayer!
I live off the beaten track in Scotland, but still, how come this was not reported more??
Whatever his personal faith may be, or not be, it seems to me very significant. “Those who honour me I will honour”.
May this small step in the right direction be richly blessed to him, to America, and through the West to the whole world.
Making sense of some of the tragedies in storms, and life in general
A friend recently ask me what I thought about the fact a helicopter carrying emergency personnel and supplies crashed while trying to get to folks trapped in the storm. This what came to mind.
The late great Keith Green had a plane on his Texas property. He had a pastor and his kids visiting him. he took them for a plane ride to have an aerial view of this great property God had blessed him with….the plane crashed killing the pastor, his wife, and 5-6 kids plus Keith, the pilot, and two of Keith’s kids.
1982
So where was God?….
Meeting him at the pearly gates asking him why he had 12 people in a 6 seater plane.
Telling him he had big plans for him and the pastor and he screwed it up
God told him that, I’d bet.
Then he said, “Oh well, you’re way ahead of schedule, but at any rate, Well done thou good and faithful servant. enter thou into heaven and enjoy the blessings of the Lord for eternity”
Life is good for some, but sadly and mostly unnecessarily, not all. Christian folks have to fully buy into God’s plan. It’s simpler than most perceive and most often results in receiving a ‘boatload’ of everyday common sense. But It’s more than saying a prayer way back when and then throwing caution ‘to the wind’ in faith. It isn’t a roll of the dice, making less than wise decisions and ‘expecting’ good returns from God. You have to invest daily. It isn’t hard but it isn’t an automatic either. Relationship come from initiating…then reciprocating back. It’s intended to be a continual fun lifetime thing. Far too many Christians are miserable far too much because they drop out (tune out) of reading and listening after Christian kindergarten. They think that kindergarten diploma is an MBA. With that we take too many uncalculated risks in the name faith or we take none, and often we pay the price. God has much he wants to teach each of us, for our own good, our families, our friends, and those we come in contact with daily.
Anyways…. a year later Keith, in heaven, comes back and says, “Hey Lord,, couldn’t you have kept our plane in the air?
Lord says, “Yes, I could have. Remember when Jesus wouldn’t cast himself off the temple to prove a point to the devil after 40 days fasting?…Remember what he said?….What had become common sense for Jesus, is supposed to become common sense enough for you. It really isn’t that difficult to understand and live by….unless you stop at your kindergarten diploma.. Stop tempting the lord your God. Read on….listen….Live and do my work and will, respecting the basic laws of nature I put into place for you, and all humanity in the beginning of time. The big moments you seek, come not from where and when you lead me, but appointed times you realized not, that I lead you.
Keith, “….Oh Yeah!!”