CultureWatch

Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day...

More Celebrity Zingers

Apr 25, 2009

Hollywood celebs, pop stars and other movers and shakers in popular culture are not always known for their brilliance and depth of intellect. They are not exactly known for their high moral standards either. But given their huge fan bases, and the inordinate amount of influence they have on impressionable young people, what they say and do will have a very widespread impact.

Therefore what they say and do needs to be subject to public scrutiny, just as the words and actions of a politician require assessment and judgment. Thus the very public utterances and shenanigans of our celebs need to be monitored and examined, in the hopes of warning at least some that their pop culture heroes may not be the fount of wisdom they might claim to be.

Consider the recent episode of homosexual activist Perez Hilton. He was one of the judges at the Miss America beauty pageant. He called Miss California Carrie Prejean a “dumb b*tch” with “half a brain” when she replied to his question about same-sex marriage. She said that she believed that marriage should be between a man and a woman only. For that Perez, the homogestapo activists, and the politically correct Hollywood in-crowd came down on her like a ton of bricks. And because of her honesty and political incorrectness, the Christian contestant lost the title as well.

And the true nature of homosexual militancy was further revealed in later remarks made by Hilton. He said, with a laugh, “And I called her the ‘b’ word, and hey, I was thinking the ‘c’ word, and I didn’t say it,” He also said, “If that girl would have won Miss USA, California, I would have gone up on stage, I sh*t you not, … snatched that tiara off her head, and run out the door”.  So much for the tolerance and acceptance that they are always carping about.

If his remarks were revolting, the comments made by some celebs were not much better. Consider the words of these two megastars, both of whom have a huge following of tweens (children aged 8 to 12). Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus both weighted into the debate, at the request of Hilton.

These are the words of wisdom that spurted from the mouth of Spears: “Love is love! People should be able to do whatever makes them happy!” And it gets worse with Cyrus, the star of Disney’s “Hannah Montana,” who said: “Jesus loves you AND your partner and wants you to know how much he cares! thats like a daddy not loving his lil boy cuz hes gay and that is WRONG and very sad! like I said everyone deserves to be happy.”

Hey, somebody nominate these guys for a Nobel Peace Prize! Maybe when Stephen Hawking retires, we can get these masterminds in his place. And there I thought they were just pretty faces! And the theological nous of Cyrus is mind-boggling.

As I say, we should not expect much from these celebs. But when they make idiotic remarks like this which will be soaked up by millions of children and adolescents, then someone needs to help set the record straight.

So let’s look a bit more closely at the sagacious words uttered here. Both pop stars inform us that happiness is the summum bonum, the highest good. Oh really? Whatever makes you happy? So the child molester who gets his jollies from abusing children because it makes him happy – are we to tell him to just go for it?

The serial killer who really enjoys watching the blood flow – do we say, ‘yep, it’s cool; whatever makes you happy’? And the boys who enjoy torturing kittens for pleasure? ‘Well, Britney and Miley both said whatever makes you happy. So if they think it’s OK, it must be OK.’

And “love is love”? What exactly is love, Britney? Whatever you get off on? Whatever makes you happy? Some people love whole groups of people, and want to legalise group marriage. It’s called polyamory, and there are skillions of websites touting this very thing. So is that fine and dandy Britney?

And some people just love to have sexual relationships with children. They even call it love. So is that just peachy as well Britney? And why be so discriminatory? The truth is, some people enjoy the occasional fling with animals. But hey, if it is love, and it makes them happy, then who am I to judge?

But ol’ Hannah (Miley) even waxes biblical in her response. She informs us that Jesus loves everyone, and wants everyone just to be happy, no matter what they are doing. Like all deception (whether intended or not), there is always a bit of truth mingled with error.

Does Jesus love everyone? Yes. But is the love of God the sort of non-moral, non-discerning sentimentalism which says everybody is just fine the way they are, and He is happy to leave us as we are? Hardly. God loves us in spite of our sin, and Jesus came to set us free from the bondage of self and sin.

Loving someone is willing the highest good for them. The love of God entails caring enough about us not to leave us in our sinful and hell-bound condition. His love is always a transforming love. He wants homosexuals to be set free from their destructive sexual addictions. He wants heterosexuals to also be set free from any sinful sexual addictions they are captive to.

We are not loving anyone if we simply excuse their sin, make a mockery of the cross, and pretend that what God has said about human sexuality can simply be jettisoned for our own PC version of events. Miley is doing no one a favour when she misleads them in these very important areas.

Indeed, given her enormous influence, countless impressionable young people may well go out and experiment with homosexuality, because their idol Miley said it is OK, and she even said Jesus thinks it is OK as well.

Sorry Miley, but you are dead wrong here, and you are doing enormous damage to millions of young people. And sorry, but no one deserves to be happy. There is no magical right to happiness anyway. As C.S. Lewis often reminded us, happiness is a by-product. When we get in right relationship with our creator, then happiness follows as night follows day. But seek happiness as an end in itself, and it will forever elude us.

Or as Jesus said, “Seek first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added onto you” (Matt. 6:33). But seek those other things apart from God, and you will obtain neither. Miley simply reflects the spirit of the age here. But when she seeks to throw Jesus into the mix, and pretends she is speaking for him on this issue when she clearly is not, then that is very serious business indeed.

So in a sense this is yet another typical celeb outburst, devoid of any intellectual or moral content. But given their very real and considerable influence, even these vacuous pop stars need to be challenged.

For those so inclined, Miley is contactable through her publicist: www.pmkhbh.com/

www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042405.html
www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/apr/09042103.html

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30 Responses to More Celebrity Zingers

  • AS someone wrote on Purcell’s Chicken voluntary blogsite, Perez hilton is a gay facist who stands in the balance under the judgement of God. I saw Miss California being interviewed by CNN and she more than gave a good accounting for herself and her faith.
    Wayne Pelling

  • That Perez Hilton sounds very intolerant. He should heed his own advice and just tolerate everyone. Thanks for reporting on this Bill.
    ————–
    “Lest we forget”

    Keith Jarrett

  • Thank you Bill for another great entry! A very Holy Priest said to me recently, “He gets through the tiniest of little cracks”. “He” of course is none other than “the evil one”. So sad to see that these beautiful and very gifted young people are caught up in the culture of “I want to be rich and famous and cool, no matter what!” They loose sight of what is right and wrong and in doing so eventually destroy their goodness, all for the sake of their image – the image that they imagine will lead them to the ultimate success, to become as you have said, “a pop culture hero”!
    Jane Byrne

  • To be fair on Miley, she is only 16. I know that I would have said a lot of things when I was 16 that weren’t quite right and that I have thought differently about later.

    But that Perez Hilton, he has no excuse, not only does he hold such views, he is very nasty about them. At least Hugh Jackman expresses himself with some manners, even if I don’t agree with what he has to say about this issue. I do like Hugh Jackman though, he has been married to the same woman for many years (not particularly common in the celebrity world these days) and seems very much in love with and committed to his wife.

    Views like this are what we can expect from non-christian people, if you don’t have anything to measure your ideas by (ie. God) than these things do seem like a good idea….why would you want to stand in the way of people being “happy?” Why would we oppose people making different choices like this? It seems very simple on the surface, but many people don’t think about it any more deeply than that.

    Kelly

  • Bill, the publicist website is a one-page place holder.

    It might be simpler to give the addresses, or at least to say “publicist mailing address is available at http://www.pmkhbh.com/

    The site http://www.mileycyrus.com requires (nay, demands) the use of Flash v9 which annoys me because it limits access, so I haven’t been able to respond online.

    I borrowed a Windows computer to check the site and there is so much sound and vision via Flash that I couldn’t get to the blog section. So I can’t confirm if there is any way to give feedback.

    She makes it easy to spout forth her comments but difficult for others to respond.

    You can follow the inane Spears commentariat here:
    http://www.britneyspears.com/2009/04/britney-tweets-on-gay-marriage.phphttp://www.britneyspears.com/2009/04/britney-tweets-on-gay-marriage.php

    At the time I commented, there were 30 earlier comments, predominantly “airhead” types, sadly.

    Responding to Hugh Jackman is neither easy nor useful, since his comments were taken from another context, and added into the reporting about the Miss USA “furore”.

    Hope this helps people with responding to the celeb comments-on-demand.

    John Angelico

  • No surprises here. I guess what would have been genuinely amazing is if these celebs/pop stars had actually said something intelligent.

    The ironic thing is that the ‘conservative Christian’ heroine in all this, Carrie Prejean, is a beauty queen who appeared on international TV in a skimpy bikini to be viewed by millions. Such is the state of Christianity in America and the West in general.

    Ewan McDonald.

  • Bravo Bill! It is interesting to note that Perez Hilton is the “Gossip Queen” of Hollywood. And that his blog about celebs was formerly known as pagesixsixsix. Is it ok then for him to tear down people in public constantly and get away with it? I don’t understand how he seems to keep getting away with it and then others just back him up. It seems like there is such a fear out there of this Perez guy and what he can do to your career. On the flip side of this thank God for people like Carrie Prejean who are standing up for what they believe in, the sanctity of marriage. I hope we all have enough guts to stand publicly and declare what is right not what is evil that has become (deceptively) good. My question is what is next that is going to be the norm?
    Francesca Collard

  • The Hilton hypocrite — thinking of the ‘c’ word when as a homosexual, he isn’t interested in them!
    Michael Watts

  • Thanks Kelly

    I have let you on even without a full name as required, because you raise one important point. As to her age, Miley is now 17, but yes she is young.

    But your last point is worth addressing. If your last paragraph is referring to Miley, many press reports claim that she is a Christian, and/or claim that she comes from a strong Christian family. So yes, if she were a non-Christian, we would expect this foolishness, but not if she is claiming to be a follower of Jesus. That is why her comments are especially problematic.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • I have taken an interest in the politics of celebrities, since I spent 33 years in radio and interviewed many of them. It did not take me long to discover, for example, that the vast majority of celebrities from the singing and acting community in the famous country music centre, Nashville Tennessee vote Republican and are conservative in their outlook. However, the situation in Hollywood is at the opposite end of the spectrum. Not only do the Hollywood “mob” vote Democrat and if I had time, could list those who have put their money where their foul mouths are, with donations to members of that party, you could add to that, the fact that a much larger percentage of homosexuals could be counted in their number, than would be found in the general community. They are so numerous that only an actor, who has made it “big time” has the luxury of admitting to be a Republican voter or that he or she is opposed to same sex marriage. Others, who are not established, but admitted being conservative would not get work. Consequently, those who publicly support leftist causes, might only be protecting their jobs. I was very amused to hear last year before the election, that one Hollywood troglodyte said to Clint Eastwood “Have you heard that great speech from our next Vice President?” The trog’ was referring to that walking boofhead Joe Biden. Clint Eastwood replied “Yes I have- it was great, I love her accent and I think she’s good looking too”.

    Frank Bellet, Petrie Qld

  • Hey Bill, Sorry about that, i’ve got my surname there now.

    Yes, that is a good point about the families claim to be a christian family. I feel for Miley though, even though she says she’s a christian, she’s a young christian. I didn’t become a christian until my early 20’s, and as a “young christian” I still thought and said (and wore) things that I wouldn’t necessarily think now. I’m guessing though that if she’s been brought up in a christian home, the strongest influence is mum and Dad, i wonder what their thoughts are? Billy Ray did stand by and let his daughter be photographed half naked under some bed sheets though, you might remember the uproar. so I suppose the christian influence has been watered down somewhat. Those are some random thoughts of mine.

    The last paragraph in my original post was more of a general one rather than specifically being aimed at Miley.

    Regarding Carrie Prejean standing up for what she believes in, she’s standing up in a bikini, being paraded around and judged on attritubes she has no control over. She volunteered herself for this and no doubt, there would have been countless other bikini comps leading up to this. While I can affirm that she was brave enough to not compromise on her views and speak them boldly, in my mind she has compromised on a lot of other things and in this sense, is she any more watered down than Miley? Just putting that out there!

    Kelly Williams

  • I think the comments thay Kelly has made re Carrie Prejean wearing a bikini are quite valid. I am concerned that here in Melbourne our Christian radio station has a presenter, a very nice young lady, who does Kylie Minogue impersonations, and on looking up her website found that she carried this impersonation through to dressing quite revealingly in a photo shoot. Perhaps the photo has been removed but what message does this convey about that station?
    Wayne Pelling

  • Whilst I’ve no interest in beauty pageants (the promotion of a handful of attributes at the expense of ones like wit and intelligence is usually a bit lame) I’m currently watching the interview conducted with Carrie Prejean with her pastor at her church and it’s interesting how this situation has parallels with the biblical story of Esther. I would not be too critical of this situation or the Christians around her, Ewan, none of us has a corner on righteousness. And Wayne and Kelly, what would Esther have been wearing when she was paraded before the king? (Admittedly she probably had no choice in the whole situation.)

    Just asking some questions…

    The funny thing is how a beautiful girl has unveiled some of the ugliness of the militant homosexual agenda.

    http://www.therocksandiego.org/stories/misscalifornia/

    Mark Rabich

  • And just with that interview – if you have a spare hour (and the computer/internet specs to view it) I really do recommend the link above. Carrie Prejean – and her parents too – have my admiration. I love what she had to say about God’s crown vs the crown of Miss USA. What’s gonna last? And there are some important lessons here for all of us for living the truth and standing up for it.
    Mark Rabich

  • Thanks Mark

    While like most people who come to this site I am neither a devotee of beauty pageants nor of women walking around nearly naked, the little I know about Carrie (I have not looked at your link yet), impresses me greatly. The fact that she was willing to publicly stand up for marriage and take on the wrath of the hate-filled homosexual thugs really is as bold as it is rare today. She has guts, and in this case, the courage of her Christian convictions. In this she puts most other believers to shame. Most would rather cave in to the forces of PC and the homosexual militants, rather than take a strong stand and face the consequences.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Mark, the fact that “none of us has a corner on righteousness” is true enough, but let’s not adopt the view that because none of us are perfect that we can’t raise legitimate concerns regarding Christian standards.

    I certainly admire Carrie Prejean for not compromising her convictions over the definition of marriage, but it is a sad reflection on the superficial state of much of Western Christianity that she and so much of the church think it of no consequence that as a participant in a modern beauty pageant she is required to parade half naked in front of potentially millions of TV viewers.

    Ewan McDonald.

  • Hi Ewan,

    I’m not really debating the pros and cons of beauty pageants nor those of wearing bikinis. (I do like modesty, btw – but I admit I haven’t really ever needed to give the subject a great deal of thought.) I’m simply pointing out that (especially after hearing her – and her pastor – speak about the situation on their own terms) that its clear that God has done something here. A young woman who strongly believes in marriage did not let PC group-think shut her up and those uncommitted to speaking up for truth would likely (hopefully) have been emboldened. I just don’t want to find myself being negative about what is actually a fantastic example of how God can work. And it’s impossible to remove the story of Esther from the fact that she was “lovely in form and features” (2:7) and noticed for that especially. I think we can safely assume she wasn’t usually wearing rags.

    I don’t think it’s of “no consequence”. But I do think it’s of significantly less consequence. This situation has brought about something quite remarkable that I think God orchestrated.

    So, what does God think of bikinis? errrrr…….. well…
    (I think I’ll change the subject)

    Another verse from Esther comes to mind – “for such a time as this.” (4:14) The provision of Carrie Prejean’s senior pastor to be on the other side of the country where she knew nobody – the very same time less than a kilometre away – with experience in the media and time to spare was surely incredible. And then, to the impartial observers (are there many of those with same-sex ‘marriage’?) she would have looked graceful, elegant and intelligent, and Hilton looked like a frothing, hateful and selfish child. The USA caught a glimpse last week of the scowling, angry face of the same-sex ‘marriage’ lobby in stark contrast to the everyday but unsurpassed beauty of a woman. It’s also very difficult for them to cast themselves in the role of victim here, especially when she likely lost her shot at the crown of Miss USA – and she knew it at the time.

    But, overall, it’s a really good story. Let’s watch it unfold (if it goes any further) and be praying for wisdom in her life, in the life of those around her, and for ourselves.

    Actually, Ewan, maybe it would be better if you could find out what her dad thinks of all this! 😉

    Mark Rabich

  • Thanks guys

    A lot of attention is being paid to Carrie Prejean in the US. See for example the article, ‘Miss California Is Braver Than Some Pastors’: http://townhall.com/columnists/DougGiles/2009/04/26/miss_california_is_braver_than_some_pastors

    My only disagreement would be that he should change the title to ‘Miss California Is Braver Than Most Pastors’.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • No question that what she did was a brave thing, can we all agree on that? She’s beautiful yes? Well Duh! There is no sin in being beautiful, that is not the issue. It should be noted that beauty is not universal and it varies from culture to culture. So our culture considers her beautiful, that is a no brainer.

    What bothers me here though, is that we seem to be brushing aside her participation in a very shallow, sexist and degrading competition, because she was brave enough to be honest about her very unpopular views on marriage. Now of course God will use all sorts of things for his purpose, but does that mean beauty pageants are ok? And I don’t think the issue is “bikinis” the issue is women being treated as meat, competing with one another for the enjoyment of men. Bikinis are used for this purpose in the context of a beauty pageant.

    Back to Miley. She has said she is a christian and thinks gay couples are ok. So, she’s inconsistent. Carrie says she’s a christian and says, gay marriage not ok. but she is participating in pageants. Inconsistent.

    I don’t know both the girls personally, but from what i know, i think they might be in the same boat here.

    (for the record, i’m not saying that i’m a pefectly consistent christian either, i’m not perfect, so I’m not trying to come down hard on either of them. But I think this is worth discussing.)

    Kelly Williams

  • The Doug Giles article was a good one.

    Mark, in drawing attention to the bikini issue I don’t believe that I am in any way diminishing the idea that God has used her to speak truth to many on the same-sex marriage issue. It’s just that the bikini issue reminds us how far that Christianity in the West has fallen from upholding a godly standard and witness to the world.

    With regards to the Esther example, the fact that Esther was used by God to save the Israelites from destruction, in no way legitimises the practice of godly women joining the harem of pagan kings. So I would be careful in drawing too close a comparison between Prejean and Esther for the purpose of defending Prejean’s wearing of a skimpy bikini in a very public situation.

    I would disagree with Kelly as regards the merits of beauty pageants versus the merits of bikini wearing. Although the issue of modesty can be a subjective thing, the skimpiness of the modern bikini is something that is objectively beyond decency. Beauty pageants, on the other hand, may reasonably be considered a superficial exercise, but where is the sin in that? So I have to disagree with Kelly and say that the bikini issue is the issue, and beauty pageants really aren’t much of a concern except where they contain a requirement for the contestants to parade around near naked.

    Ewan McDonald.

  • Hi Ewan,
    If the issue *is* the bikini, then she is doing nothing out of the ordinary and nothing at all controversial. Christians should therefore not have a problem with them at all, as women wear bikinis to the beach. (This is often how such modelling agencies that objectify women defend themselves against criticism “you would see more flesh at the beach”)
    I agree that bikini’s are typically skimpy and some skimpier than others, but all swimsuits are figure hugging and it seems to me that seeing a woman’s stomach is not that big of a deal, since men expose their stomachs all the time when they go to the beach. Why would the women’s stomach be offensive and the man’s not at all?

    Hence why I suggest the bikini in itself is not the issue in this instance. I believe the issue is the context, she is not wearing a bikini to go swimming, she is wearing it specifically to expose her body and subject it to the judgement and lust of men. She has likely had various cosmetic procedures in order to do this, if not her than certainly the others. We are talking about vanity and an enourmous waste of time and resources. They are always required to walk around half naked, but even if they weren’t, lining women up like cattle to judge their bodies is something I think all christians should be concerned about. Eating disorders in very young girls are on the increase, women and girls are self harming due to poor body image (because of what they see in mags and on tv) more girls and women are sexualising themselves, getting cosmetic treatments because of the superficial culture, that Carrie has actively chosen to be part of. I think it *is* bizaare for a self proclaimed christian to be part of such a thing. Not that she’s not a christian, simply that i don’t understand it.
    Kelly Williams

  • On a totally different track, but somehow slightly relevant, I have been watching Lord of the Rings trilogy over the last week. The story highlights the intimate bond that Frodo and Sam had for one another. Tears, caressing, sharing from the heart, being there for one another and even a gentle kiss towards the end. Gay icon material if there ever was.

    What a joy to see in the midst of this free and open brotherly love, Sam exclaim how if he were to marry anyone it would be sweet Rosie Cotton. Even better to see this coming out of Hollywood – a rare occurance these days. Where has that robustness of the male to male relationship gone in our society; The natural confidence of tender brotherly love being opening expressed in touch and word? It has now been tainted by perverts and a confused society cant give a reasoned argument against them.

    Homosexuality threatens to destabilize the male and female identity with the whole community and how that expresses itself in relationship. The loss of innocence is more profound than we think.

    Carrie Prejean gave a profound response in a setting where a beautiful woman’s opinion matters. Fight for real marriage.

    Anthony McGregor

  • Kelly, we may have to agree to disagree on this. The fact that, as you say, wearing a skimpy bikini is “nothing out of the ordinary and nothing at all controversial” is simply one of the many indicators of the decadence to which Western civilisation has sunk over the last 50 years. Christians should absolutely have a problem with them regardless of how ‘acceptable’ bikini wearing has become. For example you wouldn’t say that the church should think nothing of pornography because it is now everywhere in society. Regardless of how normalised it has become, sin is still sin, and so it is that skimpy bikini wearing is in every public context wrong because it is making oneself an object of lust.

    It is not true to say that walking around half naked cannot be separated from a beauty pageant. I’m sure that a generation or two ago this wasn’t a requirement just as both male and female swim wear was far more modest in the past than it is today.

    Ewan McDonald.

  • Ewan,

    As I pointed out, I have not really given the issue a great deal of thought, and I do think that if ones errs, it ought to be on the side of modesty. And I understand that Esther’s participation is a descriptive, not a prescriptive account, like many others in the Bible.

    But what is a “public situation”? The beach? A public swimming pool? A beach volleyball tournament broadcast to millions during the Olympics? And what exactly is modesty or a “godly standard” that can be so definite in different contexts? Yes, I need to be careful, but also I think you need to be careful in speaking on something as authorative when the Bible is not so definitive. So it is in applying any “standard” to Prejean. She may have given a great deal of thought and prayer to it, as odd as that may sound to you. And sought wise counsel. Or she may not and just blundered ahead with dreams of ‘making it’ or similar celebrity-culture drivel. But I seriously doubt the latter after watching the interview with her pastor – she seemed strongly concerned with honouring God first and she did not regret losing the title at all. And it’s funny, more people probably know the name of the runner-up (and, more importantly, why she was runner-up) now than Miss USA. And they have seen the spiteful face of the gay lobby.

    It’s just pointless to discuss this in forums with people beyond our influence, it will just go round in circles each according to their own take on what their conscience considers to be a modest dress code or a godly standard before God. I think it’s important to remember that it’s just one part of the total competition anyway. I just know what I want to be focussed on here. The fact is that if Prejean hadn’t voluntarily entered, this would not have happened. And logically, following your “objectively beyond decency” point, it seems odd that God would use that very context in front of the world if it was so clearly wrong and – you appear to be suggesting – equivalent to the porn industry in objectifying and degrading women for money. Maybe I’ve missed something here, and if so, allow me to be corrected in the future, but I’m finding it difficult to reconcile the two. I reiterate, I have no interest in pageants, but I keep trying to consider what God thinks and why He would have done this. I have no doubt that the first woman, Eve, would’ve been stunningly beautiful. And yes, this world is now fallen, but beautiful also were many other women in the Bible and this subject is plainly not ignored.

    Ultimately it is only God’s opinion that counts. And yes, I might be wrong about this, but Ewan, sorry, but I think I may have to agree to disagree with you too. I think you have every right to speak to those to whom you have influence and authority over on this subject according to your conscience, but I don’t believe you can cast such clear judgements on others or the Western church when the Bible (obviously) never mentions bikinis once. Yes, there are verses that speak about interaction with others, dress sense and lust, but I do not think they address this specific situation clearly enough to be so dogmatic about it, and, in the process, end up just being unnecessarily negative in the face of a wonderful thing that God has done. It keeps on sounding like “Thanks for doing that great thing, God, but what are you going to do about Carrie’s bikini?” I just think God would find that a bit petty and ridiculous. My two cents, anyway…

    Mark Rabich

  • Ewan, I think you’ve misunderstood me.

    My original statement is this:

    “If the issue *is* the bikini, then she is doing nothing out of the ordinary and nothing at all controversial.”

    If the only problem with beauty pageants is the “bikini” then she isn’t doing anything controversial, because women do that all the time, christian and non-christian women. Go to a youth group event at the pool and you will see that.

    I just want to repeat again, because I really want to be understood (and maybe i’m not expressing myself clearly, as can happen a lot with forums etc.) The whole pageant thing, is about bodies being judged, in bikinis, in ball room style clothing and so on. Human bodies being judged for physical features, that have been surgically altered, waxed (including “brazillian waxing” which is a virtual requirement for modelling), spray tanned and starved for such a pageant. The influence of such pageants (and other similar things) is so wide spread, that the american psychological association described the culture as “toxic” for girls, in other words girls are fighting an uphill battle against eating disorders, poor self esteem and physical and mental ailments. Carrie has not just said “i like beauty pageants” (like Miley who said that she thinks same sex marriage is ok) she is *participating” in this. Ewan, I’m not sure that you know a lot about beauty pageants, what do you think about what I just said about them?

    Regarding bikinis at the beach or pool for swimming in (as opposed to being worn on stage, with high heels to be lusted after)….are men wearing speedos or board shorts at the beach making themselves an object of lust?

    Kelly Williams

  • Mark, the fact that God may bring something good out of a situation does not automatically mean that He approves of every aspect of the situation. This should be something Christians can agree about given the many biblical examples. Similarly, the fact that I question one aspect of the story does not mean that I am dismissing the idea that God has used Prejean to speak truth to many on the same-sex marriage issue. I thought I had made myself clear on that.

    A public situation is a public situation, or in other words, any situation that is not private such as in one’s home with one’s family. So all your examples are indeed public.

    As I said about modesty, it can be a subjective thing, but the skimpiness of the modern bikini is something that is objectively beyond a Christian standard of decency, and I stand by that claim. I saw the “Ralph magazine” photo in the Melbourne Herald-Sun of former Hi-5 star Kellie Crawford. As you know, many pro-family groups objected to this display of immodesty. I also saw the photo of a bikini clad Prejean in the Herald-Sun which accompanied the story about her and the same-sex marriage controversy. By way of comparison, Crawford was the more modestly attired! What I find ironic is that Christians have (rightly) condemned Crawford, but approve of Prejean presumably in part because she is one of us.

    There are many things that the Bible is not “definitive” about including for example what exactly constitutes pornography. This doesn’t stop us from attempting to determine what standards Christians should live by, and the issue of modesty is important to our role as ‘salt and light’ in society. The Bible is not definitive about the coverings God made for Adam and Eve, so do we then say it is maybe OK for women to go around topless? And if we say that skimpy bikinis are justified by culture and context, then hey, if it becomes culturally acceptable to go around naked are Christians going to follow that fad too? The point is that the church must have a standard and that standard should at least be noticeably different to the world, and if it isn’t then our witness is diminished. As it stands, what we see in most of the Western church is that the standards of the church are no better than the standards of the world on a whole range of issues. This is one of the reasons why I and many others say that we need a Revival of Christianity in the West.

    I don’t think God finds the issue of modesty and His church “petty and ridiculous” at all. I think God grieves over the fact that His church has become so compromised with the world that it is almost indistinguishable from it.

    Kelly, I share Mark’s view that there is essentially nothing wrong with beauty pageants. I agree with Mark that beauty is something to be admired. Beauty can be judged without it turning into lust. As long as contestants keep their clothes on then a beauty pageant is OK by me. And as I already alluded, yes I do think the issue of modesty and skimpy swim wear applies to both men and women.

    Ewan McDonald.

  • Hi Ewan,

    I think we agree more than disagree – I just want to be clear where God has spoken clearly – and a little less prepared to be rigid (or declare those things as equally important) where the answers aren’t so easy.

    Mark Rabich

  • Thanks guys

    But as my article was really about silly celebs, and partly about resisting the homosexual activists, lengthy debates about the merits or otherwise of bikinis and beauty pageants are getting a bit off the track here, as interesting as the discussion may be. So if you don’t mind, we might wind up that particular debate here, OK?

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Andrew Bolt has a good column today on this homosexual thuggery: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25444733-5000117,00.html

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Dr. Michael Brown has a radio show where he talks about Miley Cyrus and her comments on same-sex marriage.

    In fact the whole Carrie Prejean / Miss USA thing is still a hot topic on conservative Christian radio in the USA. Here are a few links:

    Brannon Howse: The Pitfalls of Celebrity-Driven Christianity.

    Ingrid Schlueter: Miss California: Hero or Disgrace?

    Michael Brown: Miss California and Same-Sex “Marriage”

    Ewan McDonald.

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