I tend to ignore really stupid things making the rounds on the Internet, but since some have gone viral, and others have asked me to do a response, I will on occasion do a reply. This particular one is quite popular amongst homosexual activists, and amongst gullible believers who have lost all ability to think, discern, reason, or properly represent their faith.
I refer to “Ten Things I Wish the Church Knew About Homosexuality” by a certain Jim Rigby. One write-up about him says this: “The Rev. Jim Rigby is pastor of St. Andrew’s Presbyterian Church in Austin, TX, and a longtime activist in movements concerned with gender, racial, and economic justice.”
Translation: he is an apostate and a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Anyone promoting the homosexual agenda in the name of Christ is deceived and a deceiver big time. And the baloney he is trying to palm off here is just typical theological revisionism. He offers the same old brainless objections that we have heard for years now.
They have all been answered by me and others time and time again. Indeed, I deal with them all very carefully in my new book, Strained Relations: The Challenge of Homosexuality. So for those looking for a detailed and fully referenced rebuttal of this sloppy thinking, I encourage you to grab my book.
But let me yet once again deal with this diabolical nonsense.
1. If Jesus did not mention a subject, it cannot be essential to his teachings.
Yeah right – really smart one Jim. Jesus never once said a word about rape, or arson, or environmental pollution. So I guess he does not give a rip about those issues either. This is kindergarten reasoning of course – and this guy is a Presbyterian Pastor?
Arguing from silence is never sensible. And Jesus did make it perfectly clear in places like Mark 10:7 that he endorsed only one form of human sexuality: heterosexual marriage. He certainly did not need to explicitly discuss how wrong homosexuality is – that was simply a given in first century Jewish culture.
2. You are not being persecuted when prevented from persecuting others.
Huh? To resist the homosexual juggernaut which seeks to destroy marriage and family and shut down all opposition is not persecution. To offer the truth to the homosexual that he does not have to remain in his risky and dead-end lifestyle is not persecution – it is biblical love in action. To warn the sinner that if he does not turn and repent he faces a lost eternity is not persecution, but fulfilling our marching orders as believers, and showing the love of Christ.
And to suggest that Christians are not being targeted by homosexual activists is pure fantasy. As I have documented so often, every day believers are losing their jobs, being fined, or thrown in jail, for daring to stand up to the homosexual militants.
3. Truth isn’t like wine that gets better with age. It’s more like manna you must recognize wherever you are and whoever you are with.
Oh yeah? Sez who? Certainly not Jesus or the Bible. Only theological liberals who have long ago abandoned truth and the authority of Scripture would make such a ridiculous remark. No one reading the words of Jesus could ever come away with that sort of nonsense.
Jesus is God, and Jesus is truth. Truth never changes because God never changes. The basis of all truth is God’s unchanging character. His holy standards for us have not altered one iota. Sin is always sin, and the demands for holiness have never lessened. To deny absolute, unchanging truth is to deny who God is, and to declare God to be a liar.
4. You cannot call it “special rights” when someone asks for the same rights you have.
Yes I can – I do it all the time. If a three-year-old is granted the right to drive like I can, I call that special rights. No three-year-old can – or should – drive a car. If an American citizen who has never left his country is given the right to vote in Australia, that is a case of special rights, and is clearly wrong. There are all sorts of things some people can do which some other people cannot. That has nothing to do with discrimination.
And homosexuals do not have the right to marry any more than I have the right to marry someone of the same sex. There is no discrimination here whatsoever. The same law applies to all of us equally. Meet the conditions of marriage and you can marry. Refuse them and you can’t – it’s that simple.
5. It is no longer your personal religious view if you’re bothering someone else.
Hey bud, you are bothering me right now by pushing your theological revisionism and apostasy, all in the name of “your personal religious view”. So what is the deal here: you are entitled to do this but anyone who disagrees with you is not entitled? Some appalling double standards here I am afraid Jim.
And guess what? Christians are supposed to promote religious views – even if it bothers others. It is the very thing Jesus commanded us to do: to go into all the world and share his truth with a needy and dying world. That is why we exist – to represent Jesus and his words to a world starving to hear them. It’s the normal Christian life Jim.
6. Marriage is a civil ceremony, which means it’s a civil right.
No it is not just a civil ceremony. It is a public and social institution which is recognisable throughout human history. In all human cultures it has been about a man and a woman coming together. And for good reason, since marriage involves the possibility of children, thus deserving special sanctions and protections.
Homosexual sex by definition and by nature cannot bring forth children. If children never had anything to do with human sexuality, then no society or government would have any reason to recognise and endorse marriage. But they do, so it does.
And as already stated, just because something is a civil right does not mean everyone can therefore have that right. A two-year-old cannot be entitled to the right of marriage. A convicted murderer loses his right to freedom. Rights are only available to those who meet the proper conditions. In the case of marriage, homosexuals do not – end of story.
7. If how someone stimulates the pubic nerve has become the needle to your moral compass, you are the one who is lost.
What? How does one begin to respond to such bizarre and incoherent remarks? To be concerned about what God is concerned about is the height of Christian discipleship. We should love what God loves and hates what he hates. Given that God regards homosexual relations as an abomination, then it is not something we should try to excuse, celebrate, or promote.
How in the world it is that someone who proclaims God truth – to the homosexual or anyone else – is lost is beyond me. But by now we have come to expect such irrationality and illogic from this very confused pastor.
8. To condemn homosexuality, you must use parts of the Bible you don’t yourself obey. Anyone who obeyed every part of Leviticus would rightly be put in prison.
Wrong again Jim. One could throw out the entire Old Testament and still have a clear case against homosexuality from the New Testament. And as any theology 101 student knows, the unchanging moral laws of Leviticus 18, for example, are not at all altered in the New Testament.
Indeed, in this same chapter that condemns homosexuality we also find adultery, incest and bestiality condemned. So in your view Jim all these are cool as well, and Christians should be demanding bestiality rights and incest rights? Thanks for the help here Jim; your biblical knowledge and wisdom is just so overpowering – not.
9. If we do not do the right thing in our day, our grandchildren will look at us with same embarrassment we look at racist grandparents.
You are quite right here Jim. If we do not stand up against the false prophets, the false shepherds, and the false doctrines circulating in our churches, then we are all toast. The New Testament warns time and time again about false teachers and false teaching, and we are told repeatedly to resist all this. Allowing poisonous doctrines – in fact, doctrines of demons – to come in and corrupt the church is just what the false shepherd allows, but not biblical Christians.
10. When Jesus forbade judging, that included you.
Sorry, Jim, he of course never forbade judging. He only warned against hypocritical judgment in Matt. 7:1-5. And in the very same chapter he commands us to judge a tree by its fruit (vv. 15-23). He and the writers of the New Testament continually command us to judge, discern and test all things.
And of course what exactly is Jim doing here but making one long judgment against everyone who dares to uphold the biblical stance on this issue? Sorry Jim, but your blatant double standards and gross hypocrisy are showing here big time.
So all in all, fail – go to the back of the class. All this sophomoric silliness demonstrates is that you do not know a thing about your own faith and about the Word of God. Or, as is much more likely the case, you do know, but you have deliberately and shamelessly rejected it all.
You may think you are cool and trendy here, and you may be pleasing lots of your homosexual buddies. But of course to seek to please men is often to displease God. And such rank rebellion and apostasy is displeasing indeed. Those who do this have just one real option here: to repent and get back to their first love. And the sooner the better.
32 Replies to “Ten Things I Wish Rigby Knew About the Bible”
One thing I wish people knew about Presbyterians: Rigby belongs to the apostate Presbyterian Church in the USA. The Presbyterian Church of Australia is a Bible-believing church which upholds the veracity, authority, sufficiency and relevance of Scripture and has taken the orthodox, biblical stand on moral matters. It is not in fellowship with the PCUSA.
Bob Thomas
Thank you Bill for being the voice of logic in a world going, or maybe gone already, mad. One must ask oneself how could men like this have graduated through Bible college. Even those with the simplest education can understand the plain meaning of the text, homosexuality is wrong end of argument.
Paul Mewhor
Yes thanks for pointing that out Bob.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Exactly right Paul
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Dear Bill, That Rev. Rigby, whoever he is, is obviously a cafeteria Christian. He likes to preach the stuff he likes, and ignore the rest.
Regards, Franklin Wood
Yes quite right Franklin
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
I think someone else posted this link on another thread, but I highly recommend it as an extremely worthy rebuttal and teaching on how to counter common twisting of Scripture on the subject of homosexuality. James White spent over 5 hours dissecting why another popular pro-gay internet resource from a guy called Matthew Vines is absolutely choc-full-of-lies as he goes through all the biblical texts on homosexuality. I urge people to make time to listen to it, it is excellent. The link to the audio file is on the page, where it says ‘You can play it here’ http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=5086
Mark Rabich
Thanks for that article Bill, another great one. I’ll try to remember most of your points. By the way, the Bathurst Presbyterian Church I attend is by far the best church I have ever attended with very solid Bible teaching and outreaching bunch of real Christians on fire for the Lord in truth and in love. Just thought I mention it! :))
Manfred Sollorz
A reasoned reply to the acme of sophistry, semantics, and defining words to suit one’s arguments.
Well put, Bill.
Arthur Hartwig
I found this absolute nonsense on his website… He is most certainly an apostate:
Yes quite so Liz. This guy seem to adhere to only one gospel: the Gospel According to Political Correctness.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
“His Word will not fail you, He promised
Believe Him and all will be well
Then go to a world that is dying
His perfect salvation to tell…”
It’s an old song but still a good one.
Terry Darmody
Thanks Mark, for your reference to James White’s long refutation of all the standard revisionist arguments. It is indeed excellent. I can only hope that people on this blog followed it up, but from the lack of comment or response (which I find frustrating at times) it is hard to know.
So, all out there, please follow up the link on Mark’s posting.
Murray R Adamthwaite
A while back I had a short debate with a woman who had been to Bible College. When I quoted NT references to homosexuality, she tried to tell me that referred to infidelity, not “genuine loving relationships”. And that came from an evangelical church’s College in Adelaide.
What are they teaching them??!!
John Bennett
Exactly right John
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Infuriating to see someone so agenda driven posing as one of us…and to think of the vast numbers of sheep who will swallow it hook, line and sinker for the truth!
Matthew 7:15: “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
We are warned of the strong deception coming upon this world and it’s up to each one of us to examine what is said by so-called teachers and pastors from the pulpit and line it up with the Word of God. God is only a prayer away and all we have to do is pray for wisdom and He will immediately come and bring truth to our remembrance!
Dee Graf
Dear Bill, I am just in awe of your energy! You work so hard never giving up and your expertise is amazing! Praise God! We are all so blessed! You inform us every minute of every day of all that is going on…otherwise I would have no idea…thankyou so much…praying for you & your beautiful family to “keep on keeping on”
Mrs Jane Byrne
Many thanks Jane.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Great responses Bill, just what I needed after attending 2 Church services today. The first did not mention marriage at all…not surprises there, then the second stated what scripture says about marriage to lots of “Amens” but then went on to say that we are all sinners so are no different to someone that commits homosexuality. But hang on…we are not trying to legalise robbing a bank or killing our next door neighbor.
Yvonne Pratt
Yes quite right Yvonne
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Hi Murray, I followed it up when you originally provided the link. I’ve downloaded the file and now just have to find the five hours required to listen to it!
For those interested, Dr Michael Brown also has a very good DVD series on the same subject, entitled “Homosexuality, The Church, & Society” Available here
Ewan McDonald, Victoria
Thanks guys. Of course not everyone is in retirement mode with lots of free time. Finding 5 hours can be tough. But I know of his work and I am sure I would agree with 100% of what he says. And having been following this debate for over 25 years now, I probably will be familiar with 98% of what he says. But yes by all means, if you have a free 5 hours, please do listen.
And thanks for the Brown tip as well Ewan.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
That list of Rigby’s is the work of an amateur. He really should hang his head in shame, but he honestly believes all this, which is the sad part. When I first saw it on FB, I just rolled my eyes.
Ian Nairn
The arguments against the proscriptions of certain sexual activities in Leviticus and other Old Testament passages ignore the fact that these proscriptions occur in contexts which also refer to commands about caring for the fatherless the widow and the resident alien and the command that we love our neighbour as ourselves. I doubt that opponents of the Leviticus proscriptions would be totally consistent and reject love and justice for their neighbours as being “obsolete” cultural values or “connected to an obsolete ritual purity code”!
John Wigg
The world gives people already enough justification for their sinful behaviour, why are they trying to infiltrate the church as well, it just has the stamp of the enemy upon it big time. If Jesus were here, I could just imagine him plaiting another whip and driving them out. If these people read their bible they would know that Paul referred to our former lifestyle from which we are now cleansed through the blood of Jesus Christ both in Eph 2 and 1 Cor 6. Yes, we were all sinners and still sin, but the difference is that when we were in the world we loved sin just like these false prophets do, but now we hate it and pray every day to be cleansed and renewed.
Many blessings
Ursula Bennett
Yes exactly right John.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
You certainly got it right Ursula.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Did you realise that the addition of a single letter to #7 can change it from nonsense to wisdom? Allow me to demonstrate:
7. If how someone stimulates the public nerve has become the needle to your moral compass, you are the one who is lost.
🙂
Andrew White
One of our federal polies just said that ”
God didn’t write the marriage act”. Didn’t he?
Gen 2:24 and Mat 19:5, the latter even being a red letter verse, in which Jesus not only defined marriage between a man and a woman, but also mentioned the insolubility of the contract
Many blessings
Ursula Bennett
I was amused this morning (we have to laugh sometimes) when an ex-lecturer from Moore Theological College wrote in the Sydney Morning Herald in favour of gay marriage and described himself as “straight”.
It amuses me when proponents of homosexuality call themselves “straight” because they are indicating that they consider homosexuals to be “bent” or “crooked” or “twisted”. I call them sinners, but I try to avoid terms which are unnecessarily provocative. Some homosexuals also call heterosexuals “straight”, an interesting comment on their own behaviour.
David Morrison
Bill this Pressy church looks
a) progressive and
b) PCA (= liberal) not OPC or PCUSA (much more conservative)
So it’s par for their course.
John Angelico
Bill I was too quick to label that Pressy church – I missed Bob T’s correct identification. Sorry.
John Angelico
One thing I wish people knew about Presbyterians: Rigby belongs to the apostate Presbyterian Church in the USA. The Presbyterian Church of Australia is a Bible-believing church which upholds the veracity, authority, sufficiency and relevance of Scripture and has taken the orthodox, biblical stand on moral matters. It is not in fellowship with the PCUSA.
Bob Thomas
Thank you Bill for being the voice of logic in a world going, or maybe gone already, mad. One must ask oneself how could men like this have graduated through Bible college. Even those with the simplest education can understand the plain meaning of the text, homosexuality is wrong end of argument.
Paul Mewhor
Yes thanks for pointing that out Bob.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Exactly right Paul
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Dear Bill, That Rev. Rigby, whoever he is, is obviously a cafeteria Christian. He likes to preach the stuff he likes, and ignore the rest.
Regards, Franklin Wood
Yes quite right Franklin
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
I think someone else posted this link on another thread, but I highly recommend it as an extremely worthy rebuttal and teaching on how to counter common twisting of Scripture on the subject of homosexuality. James White spent over 5 hours dissecting why another popular pro-gay internet resource from a guy called Matthew Vines is absolutely choc-full-of-lies as he goes through all the biblical texts on homosexuality. I urge people to make time to listen to it, it is excellent. The link to the audio file is on the page, where it says ‘You can play it here’
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=5086
Mark Rabich
Thanks for that article Bill, another great one. I’ll try to remember most of your points. By the way, the Bathurst Presbyterian Church I attend is by far the best church I have ever attended with very solid Bible teaching and outreaching bunch of real Christians on fire for the Lord in truth and in love. Just thought I mention it! :))
Manfred Sollorz
A reasoned reply to the acme of sophistry, semantics, and defining words to suit one’s arguments.
Well put, Bill.
Arthur Hartwig
I found this absolute nonsense on his website… He is most certainly an apostate:
http://staopen.com/files/inclusive_lang_questions_answers.pdf
Liz Gee
Thanks Liz
Yes quite so Liz. This guy seem to adhere to only one gospel: the Gospel According to Political Correctness.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
“His Word will not fail you, He promised
Believe Him and all will be well
Then go to a world that is dying
His perfect salvation to tell…”
It’s an old song but still a good one.
Terry Darmody
Thanks Mark, for your reference to James White’s long refutation of all the standard revisionist arguments. It is indeed excellent. I can only hope that people on this blog followed it up, but from the lack of comment or response (which I find frustrating at times) it is hard to know.
So, all out there, please follow up the link on Mark’s posting.
Murray R Adamthwaite
A while back I had a short debate with a woman who had been to Bible College. When I quoted NT references to homosexuality, she tried to tell me that referred to infidelity, not “genuine loving relationships”. And that came from an evangelical church’s College in Adelaide.
What are they teaching them??!!
John Bennett
Exactly right John
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Infuriating to see someone so agenda driven posing as one of us…and to think of the vast numbers of sheep who will swallow it hook, line and sinker for the truth!
Matthew 7:15: “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
We are warned of the strong deception coming upon this world and it’s up to each one of us to examine what is said by so-called teachers and pastors from the pulpit and line it up with the Word of God. God is only a prayer away and all we have to do is pray for wisdom and He will immediately come and bring truth to our remembrance!
Dee Graf
Dear Bill, I am just in awe of your energy! You work so hard never giving up and your expertise is amazing! Praise God! We are all so blessed! You inform us every minute of every day of all that is going on…otherwise I would have no idea…thankyou so much…praying for you & your beautiful family to “keep on keeping on”
Mrs Jane Byrne
Many thanks Jane.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Great responses Bill, just what I needed after attending 2 Church services today. The first did not mention marriage at all…not surprises there, then the second stated what scripture says about marriage to lots of “Amens” but then went on to say that we are all sinners so are no different to someone that commits homosexuality. But hang on…we are not trying to legalise robbing a bank or killing our next door neighbor.
Yvonne Pratt
Yes quite right Yvonne
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Hi Murray, I followed it up when you originally provided the link. I’ve downloaded the file and now just have to find the five hours required to listen to it!
For those interested, Dr Michael Brown also has a very good DVD series on the same subject, entitled “Homosexuality, The Church, & Society”
Available here
Ewan McDonald, Victoria
Thanks guys. Of course not everyone is in retirement mode with lots of free time. Finding 5 hours can be tough. But I know of his work and I am sure I would agree with 100% of what he says. And having been following this debate for over 25 years now, I probably will be familiar with 98% of what he says. But yes by all means, if you have a free 5 hours, please do listen.
And thanks for the Brown tip as well Ewan.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
That list of Rigby’s is the work of an amateur. He really should hang his head in shame, but he honestly believes all this, which is the sad part. When I first saw it on FB, I just rolled my eyes.
Ian Nairn
The arguments against the proscriptions of certain sexual activities in Leviticus and other Old Testament passages ignore the fact that these proscriptions occur in contexts which also refer to commands about caring for the fatherless the widow and the resident alien and the command that we love our neighbour as ourselves. I doubt that opponents of the Leviticus proscriptions would be totally consistent and reject love and justice for their neighbours as being “obsolete” cultural values or “connected to an obsolete ritual purity code”!
John Wigg
The world gives people already enough justification for their sinful behaviour, why are they trying to infiltrate the church as well, it just has the stamp of the enemy upon it big time. If Jesus were here, I could just imagine him plaiting another whip and driving them out. If these people read their bible they would know that Paul referred to our former lifestyle from which we are now cleansed through the blood of Jesus Christ both in Eph 2 and 1 Cor 6. Yes, we were all sinners and still sin, but the difference is that when we were in the world we loved sin just like these false prophets do, but now we hate it and pray every day to be cleansed and renewed.
Many blessings
Ursula Bennett
Yes exactly right John.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
You certainly got it right Ursula.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Did you realise that the addition of a single letter to #7 can change it from nonsense to wisdom? Allow me to demonstrate:
🙂
Andrew White
One of our federal polies just said that ”
God didn’t write the marriage act”. Didn’t he?
Gen 2:24 and Mat 19:5, the latter even being a red letter verse, in which Jesus not only defined marriage between a man and a woman, but also mentioned the insolubility of the contract
Many blessings
Ursula Bennett
I was amused this morning (we have to laugh sometimes) when an ex-lecturer from Moore Theological College wrote in the Sydney Morning Herald in favour of gay marriage and described himself as “straight”.
It amuses me when proponents of homosexuality call themselves “straight” because they are indicating that they consider homosexuals to be “bent” or “crooked” or “twisted”. I call them sinners, but I try to avoid terms which are unnecessarily provocative. Some homosexuals also call heterosexuals “straight”, an interesting comment on their own behaviour.
David Morrison
Bill this Pressy church looks
a) progressive and
b) PCA (= liberal) not OPC or PCUSA (much more conservative)
So it’s par for their course.
John Angelico
Bill I was too quick to label that Pressy church – I missed Bob T’s correct identification. Sorry.
John Angelico