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Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day...

How Not To Argue For Homosexual Marriage

Aug 3, 2017

There would be as many senseless and just plain false “Christian” arguments for homosexual marriage as there are wolves in sheep’s clothing. They are a dime a dozen. I have encountered countless versions of them, refuted heaps of them, and pointed out the mental, moral and spiritual vacuity that lies behind them.

But they keep on coming. The war of attrition is what this is all about. Just keep on repeating lies and furphies relentlessly, and hope that some of it sticks. Never mind that the falsehoods and Scripture twisting have been challenged over and over again – they will just keep telling porkies and hope they can get away with it.

face palm 1We had yet another shocker of an example of this today. It is so bad that it really does not deserve a response. This wolf certainly will not be convinced by anything I have to say to him. But perhaps some who read his piece and had a few questions about it might be helped with a reply, so I will go ahead with it.

He claims to be a Christian, but guess what: when you trash the Word of God, promote that which the Bible condemns, and effectively call God a liar, we have every reason to say, ‘No, you are not at all a Christian’. Oh, and he is described as “a former Catholic priest”.

I am relieved to read about the “former” bit. He has no business whatsoever being involved in anything that has to do with real Christianity. But let me just quote three of his utterly ludicrous and embarrassing remarks. Here is the first:

When opponents to marriage equality quote chapters from the book of Leviticus, we ask, what did Jesus quote from those chapters? And it wasn’t the bits about sex but the bit about loving your neighbour as yourself. So, following Jesus’ lead, we don’t worry about how an ancient society organised its sex life, rather we see that Jesus wants us to love the LGBTQI community as we would love ourselves, as equals with respect and fairness.

Oh good grief. Jesus of course had no reason to remind his Jewish listeners about the sin of homosexuality. Everyone knew it was wrong. But he did quote from something even more fundamental and basic in this entire debate. He went back to Genesis to repeat the core truth found in Gen. 2:24: “That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.”

He cites this passage not once but twice, in Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9. As Robert Gagnon put it, Jesus

shows no awareness, much less acceptance, of any other pattern – even though no Jew in antiquity could have been oblivious to homosexual relationships among many Gentiles. There was no need for him to comment on whether homosexual unions should be permitted and, if so, whether his stance on divorce and remarriage should apply to them too. The creation texts authorized only one type of sexual union. It would have been a forgone conclusion for him that homoerotic relationships and human-animal unions, both proscribed in Leviticus, were unacceptable.

So despite this guy’s silly claims, Jesus did indeed care very much about things like human sexuality and how it is to be expressed. The second quote is equally useless:

When people quote an obscure word used by Paul in his letter to the Corinthians (arsenokoitai, if you’re interested) and interpret it to condemn homosexuality, we try to understand Paul through everything he said. We remember that Paul discussed sex later in his career in his letter to the Romans. Here it is clear that his views were that sex should be according to nature, which he believed reflects God’s qualities.

Um no, the term is not obscure at all, and its usage ties in with all the other passages Paul has on this topic. And of course Paul actually uses two Greek words in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11: malakoi, for “male prostitutes” and arsenokoitai for “homosexual offenders”.

The second term, which Paul also uses in 1 Timothy 1:9-10, is a compound word made up of two terms, arsenos (= male) and koitain (= sleep with, lie in bed, have sexual relations with, from which we get the word coitus, ie., intercourse). ‘Male bedders’ would be a literal, if somewhat wooden, translation. Sex between men, or homosexuality, is clearly in view here.

Worse yet is his massacre of what Paul argues for in Romans 1:18-32. The argument is crystal clear there. Paul says that men lying with men is against nature. It is unnatural for humans to engage in such behavior. And to claim that animals sometimes engage in same-sex activities means nothing for this debate, for at least four reasons:

-This is nowhere near as prevalent as people claim.
-Even so, so what? Humans are not animals.
-Animals sometimes also kill and/or eat their young – should we do so as well then?
-Neither humans nor animals can continue to survive in homosexuality – nature designed us to continue by heterosexual reproduction.

The final quote from his piece is also quite pathetic:

A famous parable of his summed it up — it has phrases that have a core place in the hearts of Christians: “When I was hungry, you fed me.” “When I was sick, you visited me.” So we hear Jesus today saying, “When I was LGBTQI, you got out of the way and let me get married.”

This is just going from bad to worse. A major logical fallacy we warn against is the category mistake. That he offers us here big time. Yes a Christian is to help the hungry and the sick. But that of course has absolutely nothing to do with embracing a sinful lifestyle and endorsing homosexual marriage. This is not even mixing apples with oranges, it is mixing goldfish with Goldilocks.

The utter foolishness and irrationality of this guy’s entire piece is just a shocker to behold. But here is a person claiming to speak for God and Scripture, twisting and distorting everything as he goes along. He could not be more wrong if he tried. And I am sure he has tried pretty hard here.

This guy, like the handful of homosexual activists and leftist politicians pushing for this are way out of touch with the majority of Australians. The simple truth is this: most Aussies do not give a rip about homosexual marriage and are getting sick and tired of hearing about it all the time. As a piece in today’s press highlights:

The federal government may be imploding over same-sex marriage but new research shows the issue is well down the list when it comes to what keeps voters awake at night. The latest True Issues quarterly survey by JWS Research shows while health, education and the economy continue to be the top three concerns, worries over terrorism and the cost of living – fuelled by a spike in energy prices – are surging. Same-sex marriage is a relatively niche issue, cited by 6 per cent of voters as an area of concern….
The results vindicate the frustrations of many inside government that this week’s brouhaha over same-sex marriage is hurting the government if only because it has stopped it focusing on the issues voters regard as important.

Nobody but some homosexual militants, some lefty politicians, and some apostate religious leaders are pushing for this. They deserve each other, and should maybe just move away, find an island somewhere, and push their moonbat agendas there till their hearts’ content. But please spare us. We have enough of this madness.

Let me finish by mentioning two comments that appeared under this online article. A person had said marriage is only for one man and one woman, to which one foolish homosexual marriage supporter replied: “No, marriage is much broader than that. Marriage means the irrevocable joining together of two different things to produce a single new thing. For example, egg white and sugar to make meringue. Human marriage is just a special case in point.”

Thankfully another commentator was quick on the uptake and pointed out that this comment actually undoes his entire case: “You actually agree that marriage ‘is the joining together of two DIFFERENT things’ or to extend what you said….joining together two egg whites will still not give you meringue.”

As mentioned, usually I do not bother with such trashy articles. But because it appeared in our most read newspaper, it seemed worthwhile to offer a few quick critiques. I am not sure who should be more embarrassed here: the author of this dud piece or a major newspaper for actually printing it.

www.heraldsun.com.au/rendezview/stop-hijacking-my-religion-to-stop-marriage-equality/news-story/4b77aff6e7f4545171be25f07ce4ba8b
www.afr.com/news/politics/samesex-marriage-not-on-voters-radar-new-research-finds-20170801-gxnhor#ixzz4oefLJUBL

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30 Responses to How Not To Argue For Homosexual Marriage

  • Doesn’t this tend to answer your Tuesday piece of whether anti-Christian militants or the so called Christian leaders preaching a sympathetic message? The militants ignore what the Bible says and focus solely on what the ‘science’ says, with perhaps the odd Biblical reference. The Christian leaders cherry pick Scripture and provide a theological basis to the anti-Christian message – sugar to help the arsenic go down if you will. Christians entering such an intellectual arena have to fight on both fronts or risk being deemed both scientifically and theologically ignorant. In truth they probably will anyway for failing to kowtow to ‘the truth’ but as long as we can hold our ground we can at least avoid going astray. Of course we need to do more than merely hold our ground if we want to share the Truth.

    And a side note regarding the homosexual marriage advocate’s claim that marriage is the joining of two completely different things. By that logic a man and a mule could be married whereas two men could not as it is the joining of 2 very similar things. It’s ironic that the slippery slope so ardently rejected is so repeatedly reinforced by those who purportedly reject it. It proves not only how fallen humanity is, but just how fallen humanity can be.

  • Another important aspect is that Jesus did not ‘loosen’ the sexual morality of the Old Testament (under some twisted version of grace), but actually affirmed it and made it stricter.

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.” – Mt 5:27-30

    Thinking about committing adultery? Hell. = The message from Jesus about a potential loophole from the Old Testament.

    Anybody who thinks they can shoehorn homosexuality into a theology with Jesus at the centre is clearly an extremely poor bible teacher.

  • Thanks for this article Bill. If I were to support SSM I would regard myself as having betrayed Christ and I don’t want to do that. At my age ‘judgment day’ is just around the corner and so I continue to work on the assumption that God knows what is best for me. All the evidence from the Bible suggests to me that God does not support or approve this lifestyle and one has to work long and hard (and in my view defy logic) to show otherwise. Jesus said ‘I call you friends’ and I seek to avoid anything that would risk that friendship. Others may believe what they like and say what they will but I have my view and in the immortal words of a long ago great man: – Here I stand.

  • God really bless you with the great job you are doing. One of your students introduced you to me. He is Dr. Kwasi Boateng from Ghana. I keep in touch.

  • Thank you Bill for the clear Biblical truth on this critical issue available for Christians who continually side step the marriage argument and simply compromise because the truth is not in them!

  • Thank you Bill and absolutely correct. If you read the last line of the article it speaks of civil marriage equality which, of course, homosexuals already, have, so this person is not only apostate they are also not terribly smart. The media, does however, love to pluck these people out of obscurity to try to prop up the nonsense case for redefining marriage. Homosexuality was in fact the first, unconditional abomination Jehovah mentions in the scriptures and of course God does not change. This is not some obscure law of Moses specific to the Old Testament Jews, as so many apostate, supposed Christians try to claim. This is the word directly from Jehovah. There can be no compromise on such things without opposing God directly; something the Apostle Paul knew but apparently this man does not. This is why I say these people are preaching a false Jesus. Their Jesus, very obviously, says different things to what the God of the Bible says. Jesus died to obey the Father but this man says we just ignore what God says.

  • David Hume’s skeptic outlook led him to assume that the destiny of human reason is to become the slave of human passions. Without the miracle of Salvation, such a servitude is only too likely to carry the day in human hearts. The ancient Serpent himself posed as a philanthropist and freethinking theologian too…

  • Bill, thank you for keeping up the good fight.

    Two points:-

    1. As you have written about previously, a “Catholic priest” does not represent Christianity. When it comes to this apologist for sodomites, the “former” merely reinforces this fact.

    2. In this fallen world I fear that we may eventually lose the fight for how the Commonwealth defines marriage.

    I of course, along with Tony Abbott, believe that marriage predates civil law and civil law can never redefine what God created. While tragic it would be nowhere near as bad as if our own churches followed the example of the fallen world.

    I have read about how in countries that have legalised homosexual marriage there are churches that have or are considering allowing each parish or local church to decide if they want to marry sodomites and lesbians contrary to the Laws of God.

    What can we do Bill to stop this happening here? In my city — Sydney — there is a church in Pitt St that flies the rainbow flag, and not as a symbol of God’s Covenant with Noah, I can assure you! They would marry sodomites without a doubt. And then you have Jim Wallace and Lyle Shelton supporting equal rights for homosexuals in all areas of civil law other than marriage. How do we ensure that young Christians don’t fall for the lie that you can be Christian and live and let live with unrepentant sodomites, and even be Christian and support homosexual civil rights? Why do we have no political or even church leaders who are willing to say like Rick Santorum did that they will never attend a homosexual wedding?

    Can you maybe write to all of these leaders and ask them this question, and publish their responses? I obviously don’t care about Shorten, Wong, Di Natoli, or even Turnbull, but I really want to know what Abbott, Abetz, Bernardi and Hanson, and Davies, Freier and Fisher would do if invited to a homosexual wedding (if that abomination was ever allowed under civil law)?

  • Well done, Bill. I love the bit about mixing goldfish & Goldilocks.
    God bless,
    Naomi Nuske.

  • I constantly get emails from folk on my list with stories of other states and countries of their approach to these matters. EG Queensland education dept banning talk of Jesus in playtime but others teaching the safe schools coalitions plan to stop bullying by teaching ten to twelve year olds what a dildo is and how it’s used. The slippery slope seems to appeal to many!!!

  • Thanks Bill. Keep up the good work. This article from Denny Burk sums what is happening across church circles. Australia be warned.
    www.dennyburk.com/four-stages-of-evangelical-affirmation-of-gay-marriage/

  • Good to read this analysis Bill. This week I asked an acquaintance who lectured as a liberal in an Anglican college overseas what he has to say about Ballarat diocese bishop Garry Weatherills’ idea that he will be happy to “marry” homosexuals when the law changes. He talked the same as this “catholic priest”. I shall print this and give it to him. Who knows – God may use it to open the eyes of the blind. Or he may just start hating me – after all we all love one and hate the opposition. It’s quite natural… homoerotic humans are not and neither are bishops who would bless it.

  • Thank you Bill. Great article!

    Jesus did warn us that we should be on guard from “wolves in sheep’s clothing”. “The most dangerous criminals don’t bother dressing like pirates – they just wear polished Armani suits!
    They don’t want to frighten the victim as they pick their pocket!”

    ** The evil-doers and their sympathisers have amputated themselves from God to the point that God can only say to them: “I have given you a mind and Free Will to use responsibly; yet you have chosen to disobey my commonsense Ten Commandments and teachings. You have chosen to remain in “careful ignorance” and to defy my commands which are there for your own true welfare… so all I can say now is “AS YOU WISH” … even though you know quite well that it leads to SELF-destruction.
    ** Romans 1 warns about the “godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness”, about how “their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened; about “Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools” … “They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator” and “just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done” so that “They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy… not only [do they] continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”

    ** The self-fulfilling prophecy: “Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.” and so the world’s nations are now made up of millions of “consummate fools” leading their followers over the cliff, like mindless lemmings … to SELF-destruction.

    ** As well – there is absolutely NO NEED for a re-definition of Marriage, just as there is absolutely NO need for so-called ‘same-sex-marriage’.
    Why? Because the law ALREADY provides the means for ANY two people to enter a legal contract for eg. inheritance, etc. — just DO NOT call it ‘marriage’ — call it something else. But let’s NOT have “gays’ impose their immoral illogical lifestyle on the rest of us.

    Because every person has FREE WILL, every person is answerable before God for what happens behind closed doors.

    And let’s remember that an “OVERWROUGHT tolerance is the last gasp of a crumbling culture” (paraphrased) – Aristotle

  • Regarding Peter Law’s point about churches compromising with the world and considering allowing sodomites and sapphics to marry, it’s much much worse than that. The US’ Methodist western jurisdiction has already appointed a woman in a civil marriage to another woman to be their bishop, and other churches have openly homosexual leaders. Having embraced the lifestyle, they promote the values. According to Oliveto, the sapphic bishop, “… diversity is a sign of God’s divinity … that’s something to embrace and celebrate,” and that Jesus would never have excluded LGBTIQ people from the church the way Christians are. If homosexuality is a sign of God’s divinity, and something to celebrate, then anyone opposing it is anti-Christ. The logic is mind-bogglingly wrong, and totally ignores or inverts what the Bible teaches, but that’s the view of some leaders of what is the ‘Christian church’.

  • In Christ who takes my curse onto cross so I claim and am Christian to share a blessing shed from the Crucified Christ. My true conversion was happened Oct. 2016 after being Christian for 37 years.
    The scandals of covering up by the Catholic Church, as former symbol of my spiritual saviour, has lost its authority of given holy communion for my soul, mind, and body entirely. I have no fear, no conflicts, no fights, no excuses, no grief and no lies can overshadow but only Jesus Christ where I find rest and drinks and food. Bill, my brother in Christ, your battle for holiness and the Word of God is admirable, a blessing because you love your human fellows particularly those who are infected by the powerful lies around everywhere on earth. Thank you again for your fights from your true faith in Christ may you find rest in his wisdom and holiness.
    Theresa Walters wife of BT

  • Yes mixing goldfish and Golilocks is as impossible as using two animals of the same sex recreating as an example that SMS is ok.we are human they are animals and both are as different as each other as what Fire and water do ; both made for different purposes . Jesus also tacked what was considered legal in his time ie the money changing in the temple and with God’s authority and righteous anger over turned the money tables and drove out the animals(John 2:13-16) .not that we are to do this only Jesus had this authority as the Son of God yet we are to stand firm on what the Word of God says.we can warn but each person must choose his/ her decision .As believers we are to continually see Australia kept as God’s country. Morally ,ethically and biblically is to be the great Southland of the Holy Spirit and we as followers of Christ only as shown in His Word to be light bearers for Christ . Without foul language or violence to show Jesus and the Word of God to all in a manner befitting a ambassador of Jesus Christ .in a loving yet firm standing only on God’s Word and leaving judgement to God alone .

  • Keep providing the Scriptural message Bill. Long after you and I and everyone has passed on from this life (unless Jesus returns first) this standard will not change. We recently have been teaching the book of Romans to our eldest child and have carefully gone through this with her.

    We continue to hold up those we know who are trapped in such a lifestyle in prayer as no one is beyond reach.

  • Dear Bill,

    Thank Heaven he is a FORMER catholic priest! That also should explain why he thinks like he does because obviously he can convince himself of anything.

  • If I am a former Catholic priest, does that mean the Bible is the former Word of God?

  • Thank you Bill for your tireless efforts. I came across a person on FB in the last few days that insisted there were no arguments from Christians besides “the Bible says so” that held water, in his view. I felt that was so demeaning!
    So thanks for continuing to present sound and comprehensible information about this, and ‘holding the line’. Blessings

  • I learned how cars work by having to get mine repaired when they’ve broken down. I’ve learned a lot about good hermeneutics by numerous examples of poor hermeneutics.

  • Bill,
    Your quip: “mixing goldfish with Goldilocks” had me in fits! Brilliant.

  • Again thank you Bill for bringing to the fore what many of us are thinking about where the Christian church is going. Could I just make the point that that FORMER Catholic priest is an apostate to the Catholic church and should not be listened to as a representative of it. He does not speak for any Christian whatever denomination so should be ignored. However the devil particularly likes to use those who have been trained as a priest in the church to steal people away from God. Let us pray for him and his like to repent before it is too late.

  • If this former priest is still representing himself as a Christian, then he must claim to believe at the very least that Jesus is God the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity. As God, He inspired the creation of the scriptures, including all of Leviticus, and commanded their contents to be heeded by the Chosen people during two thousand years, up to the time of His Coming as man. For a Christian to suggest that Jesus, who said “Before Abraham was, I am”, ignored *any* article of sacred scripture, is for starters faulty Christology and ignorance of salvation history.

  • And in all of this, not one mention of the greatest risk to all the Left’s causes – Islam. The very ideology that would have them all killed at the drop of a hat is never mentioned.

  • Bill,

    A good friend of mine, David Orton, has written a thorough article on the orthodox theological position on homosexuality. lifemessenger.org/sex-marriage-civil-right-biblical-view/#top
    Given a lot of the churches seem to lack any understanding of the scripture I think it is timely.

  • I don’t come here often but I love your articles when I do.

    I’ve been looking for articles by gays who oppose gay marriage but all I can find are some from 6yrs ago in Ireland. Have you come across any?

    Have you seen any articles showing how gay marriage may be against the rights of a child from our constitution? (similar to this one again from Ireland wayback.archive.org/web/20150521211205/http://keepmarriage.org:80/reasons-to-vote-no-irish-marriage-referendum.html)

  • Thanks Max. In some of my articles I quote from homosexuals opposed to homosexual marriage, including this very recent piece:

    billmuehlenberg.com/2017/08/13/homosexual-marriage-childless-heterosexual-couples/

    And my book Strained Relations quotes others as well.

    And this short video of two homosexuals opposed to SSM comes from 2015:

  • Hi Bill
    Will post an excellent article on the catholicweekly.com.au on why UK lost the SSM battle today.
    God bless
    Phil

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