CultureWatch

Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day...

Feel the Lurve (Why Debate With a Lefty is Almost Always Impossible)

Aug 30, 2019

Many of you will never know the level of hatred and abuse that comes your way when you stand for truth in the public arena.

If you want to live a really quiet life with very little strife, controversy and antagonism, there is a simple formula for this: simply say and do nothing. Never speak out on anything that matters. Never get involved in any of the current hot potato issues. Never share your opinions in the public arena. Never dare disagree with anyone else.

That is a good way to avoid a lot of nasty encounters. It is also a good way to probably waste your life, making zero difference in the world you live in. We might understand non-Christians wanting to play it safe this way, but Christians have no excuse: we are called – indeed, commanded – to be salt and light.

And as Jesus made perfectly clear, when the light comes in to where there is darkness, there will always be a strong reaction. John 3:19-20 could not be more explicit about this:

“This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.”

So there can never be an easy ride for those who seek to stand up for faith, family, life and freedom. The other side hates these things and hates those who stand for them. Which is why things can get so very nasty and ugly in the public arena. Which is why so many believers refuse to share their faith or take a stand for anything that is important.

Yes, I can understand their reluctance. After all, who likes to get almost daily hate mail, along with the occasional death threats, and so on? I don’t like it, but all that is part of what I must put up with because I know that truth must be shared.

Sitting on the truth and not sharing it to a needy world is an act of cowardice. There is nothing loving or Christlike about remaining silent. As Jesus also said, “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.” (Matthew 5:14-15).

Anyway, I say all this to introduce you to the most recent batch of hate mail, vitriol and abuse that I have received. It always comes in, but sometimes it seems to come in like a tsunami wave. Often some article of mine will really trigger the left, and they will send in their shock troops en masse to attack me and wear me down.

That has just happened with a piece I penned yesterday about how we now have Australia Post arrogantly pushing the radical homosexual agenda onto the entire nation, whether we like it or not. See here: billmuehlenberg.com/2019/08/29/and-now-australia-post-is-promoting-fake-marriage/

That really seems to have gotten the secular left in a lather, so for the past 24 hours I have been getting one ugly and hate-filled comment after another coming into my site. They are all very much alike: light on reason and argument but really heavy on hatred, intolerance, bigotry and abuse.

The vile bile coming out of their mouths – or keyboards – continues to amaze me, even though I have been on the receiving end of it now for a number of decades. As I have mentioned before, some years ago I started saving some of the more juicy examples of the tolerance brigade in action. Even using very small print, the document is getting to be a very large one indeed!

And it certainly has gotten bigger again this week. Most of these comments obviously do not appear on my site. Not only are most of them crammed full of ugly profanities, but usually every one of my commenting rules has been violated as well

Of course those rules are there in plain sight for anyone to see. They make it clear that trolls are not allowed, nor anonymous comments, nor hate-filled rants, etc. But when you are on a roll in hating and emoting and being driven by dark agendas, who’s got time for mere rules?

So let me offer just a small sampling of some of these lovely comments (and some of the “names” they often attached to their comments). Most of the comments are not able to be offered here without some editing – that is, without inserting some asterisks to tone the language down a bit. Here then is how the other side “argues” and makes its case:

“F**k off you stupid bigots!!! -F**k you!” 

 “F**k you old man, I’d rather 2 men or women get married and celebrate the act, then a vapid 20yr old marrying someone 40yrs older for the sake of money. Dumb f**k”

“You lot are whack jobs, why are you obsessed with the gays, just choose other stamps if it bothers you that much. F**kin bigots.”

“Your all F*** wake up to yourself get out of 19 century and get with the time’s….If i believed in it id tell you to go rot in hell with your simple minded mates. F*** you and your supporters. Its people like you that F*** this world up for everyone else. D***head.”

“Your a evil man. People like you is what ruins this world for the rest of us. Reason we have war hatreds and prejudice. Go back to the hole you grawled out of and take your supporters with you.”

“Bill if only anything you have ever written wa correct we might take your comment with a tiny bit of authenticy…
But once again Bill sprouts hate and ignorance once again
Your irrelevancy is only matched by your lack of integrity an intelligence”

“Bigots!”

“Do shut up, you crackpot. It’s 2019, you’ve lost the war -Ura Cnut”

“Nothing but a homophobic piece of s**t.”

“What a bunch of back water hicks.”

“Christianity is not our country religion. Almost half of the country no longer believes in religion, you are a hateful jerk.”

“Don’t force your sickly, faithless beliefs down the throats of others. Love is love, just because you’re a homophobe doesn’t mean the rest of us are.”

 “How do I permanently block this idiocy and genuine hate speech you call “news” from ever appearing on my screens again? -Not a bigot like you all”

On and on it goes. Sorry to expose you to all this, but this is what we are up against. It seems that their vocabulary is limited to a few choice swear words, and that is about it. Ditto for their “arguments.” There is no debate here. No discussion. Just massive amounts of hatred and intolerance. And of course all this comes from the side that screams the loudest about the need for love and tolerance!

Some comments that came in did offer a tiny bit more thought along with a bit less abuse, although they simply were offering the same old tired and oft-refuted falsehoods, lies and slanders. Here is one sad example of this:

“I would have thought that as Christians we should be supportive of marriage equality. In the Bible it reads as though Jesus was in a same-sex relationship with John.”

Good grief, I won’t even go there. Of course my book Strained Relations did look at these patently false and blasphemous claims of all these supposed homosexual relationships in the Bible. Give me a break. But one more comment to finish with:

“I wonder if the hand-picked passage you rely on from Deuteronomy for this outrage has any influence in any of your other articles or views. I’m trying to find your articles opposing shellfish, tattoos and wearing leather? Because if you’re going to stand up against being gay, you sure as hell would look like a pretty massive hypocrite condoning or even partaking in any of the those other activities. (Seafood on Fridays during Lent, anyone? What are your shoes made of?)”

Really? This is the best you can come up with? A totally lame and idiotic objection that has been answered dozens of times, including in my book? But for those who think there might be some substance to this remark, see my article here: billmuehlenberg.com/2017/06/18/mindless-misotheists-mangling-scripture/

Sigh. All up, you might get a little understanding of the sort of stuff I deal with on a regular basis. It sure ain’t pretty. Indeed, can’t you just feel the lurve oozing out of these folks? They obviously have issues. Since most of them cannot be reasoned with – and they have utterly no intention of being reasonable – all we can do in the end is pray for them.

Once in a while God does break through. A while ago I wrote about one regular hate-filled troll who must have sent hundreds of abusive comments in over the years. But one day he realised that this was not doing much good, and he told me he had stopped, and had taken down his website devoted exclusively to attacking me and spreading poisonous lies about me. I discuss that case here: billmuehlenberg.com/2018/09/07/yes-change-is-possible/

Whether he ever went on to become a Christian I do not know. But as I say, all we can do is pray. Jesus told us to: “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” (Matthew 5:44). So please join in with me in praying for these folks. Maybe some will see the light one day and come to know Christ as Lord and Saviour, replacing all their hate and bitterness with love and forgiveness.

In the meantime, I will keep seeking to share truth. That means I will keep being abused, attacked, vilified and hated on. Please keep me in your prayers. It sure is not fun, but if Jesus could go all the way to the cross for me, how can I do anything less for him?

[1687 words]

32 Responses to Feel the Lurve (Why Debate With a Lefty is Almost Always Impossible)

  • Easy to say, ignore them, but at least don’t let them get you down. Many years ago a friend put up a sign over his desk “Nil carborundum bastardium”, he said it just meant, to him, “don’t let the bastards grind you down”.

  • to paraphrase a famous quote “never argue with a donkey it frustrates you and annoys the donkey”

  • What can I say, Bill? Anyone who has experienced the hatred and abuse from anti-Christian bigots will know the sick, sad feelings it generates……but for most of us it’s just an occasional occurrence. For you it’s a constant bombardment, and also the disturbing knowledge that at any time the persecution could ramp up and shut you down. Be encouraged…..you are doing a wonderful job, and you have a legion of faithful supporters, but most of all you have the King of kings and Lord of lords to strengthen and hold you up. God bless you, Bill!

  • Thanks Bill – well written and very needed.
    The clowns you refer to should be smart enough to know that God himself is a bigot and a homophobe and thus being called such names should be taken not as an insult but rather as the ultimate compliment.
    The thought for the day: As these clowns hate Christianity and deny that Australia is a Christian Nation (never mind that our flags feature the Southern Cross and the Union Jack (three crosses) and our sovereign Queen is sworn to defend Christianity (the faith), we should suspend Christianity and give them a taste of the alternative – you know, back to pagan Rome. I find the thought very appealing and can visualize these clowns rowing boats day in and day out in chains or working in mines and even crucified. I wonder what they would bitch about then?
    John Abbott

  • ‘all we can do in the end is pray for them’
    Let’s make it our starting point, not ending point. I’ve been using Pastor Ann Brown’s daily devotions supplied by Canberra Declaration. They have focused on the SA and NSW Abortion bills during August. They have been excellent – powerful. The results in the natural, like the Upper House vote delay in the NSW Parliment and the Martin Place rally, have helped me realize just how powerful our prayers are. God wants to respond! Looking back, remember what our prayers and fasting achieved in May, and further back, PM Scott Morrison’s initial instalation as PM. I’ll be praying that your responses will be ‘sharper than a two-edged sword’ – Heb 4:12

  • Bill, keep up with your exposition of all the evil stuff going on. Be encouraged and know many are praying for you.

  • The light shines in the darkness.
    Being a light in the light is not our purpose.
    The darkness need the light absolutely.
    There is also a sense in which the light absolutely needs the darkness,
    …for it is there it should shine… it is there that it finds it’s purpose.

  • Bill,
    I get most of those comments from so called Christians, without the cussing. My ex-pastor will no longer speak to me nor will the people from the church. One recently got a tattoo of Jesus on his leg on the calf. Like he is wearing his ticket to get into heaven. But he never says a word about how he loves his Father.

    I am pretty much alone these days and my friendships have been cut in half, just like America.Sad!

  • The bible speaks of a time when a man’s enemies are of his own house. We expect non christians to attack but when your brethren attack you that hurts. Often it is easier to be beaten and stabbed and shot by a non christian than to be tongue lashed by a fellow believer. Not to say a deserved tongue lashing is bad when one must be corrected one should be but to be berated wrongly is very hard. The old saying is “sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me” but trust me they can hurt much worse. A bruise or even a broken bone will heal but words stick with you in your head for a long time. I have a lot of experience with that. I would rather be beaten.

    While I believe in the rapture and expect it to happen in my lifetime, sooner rather than later, I am fully prepared to die for my faith even by crucifixion (I would prefer it to a beheading I might better understand what Jesus went through). How many of these who attack us would die for their beliefs?? I think when push came to shove they would drop their beliefs to save their skin.

  • Hi Bill. Blessings! I once heard someone say if you take GOD out of society what you get is ungodly. I think the responses to your articles might just prove this is the truth. I am perplexed as to how the proponents of said comments are not sin-binned! So sad that in this day and age we dare not have and voice an opinion without copping a tirade of foul language and abuse instead reasoned debate from those who may disagree. Take out the swear words and most of the content also disappears. Talk about intolerance and hate speech! Never-the-less, as you say, we can continue to pray for those who hate and abuse us and demonstrate our love for all by continuing to spread the good news of the Gospel of JESUS CHRIST in the sincere hope that others may also experience the joy of salvation as we have. Bless you for your tireless efforts to show others of ‘a more excellent way!’ Cheryl

  • I wrote this down years ago. I need help with the author to credit.

    You have no enemies, you say? Alas, my friend, the boast is poor. He who has mingled in the fray of duty that the brave endure, must have made foes. If you have none, small is the work that you have done.

    Thanks Bill for leading the way. These are dark Victorian times.

  • Thanks Ron. It seems to comes from 19th century British Poet Charles Mackay.

  • “Since most of them cannot be reasoned with – and they have utterly no intention of being reasonable – all we can do in the end is pray for them”. Spot on Bill.
    Dietrich Bonhoeffer seems to have identified why these people cannot be reasoned with, because…
    “Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenceless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed- in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self-satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous.
    “If we want to know how to get the better of stupidity, we must seek to understand its nature. This much is certain, that it is in essence not an intellectual defect but a human one. There are human beings who are of remarkably agile intellect yet stupid, and others who are intellectually quite dull yet anything but stupid. We discover this to our surprise in particular situations. The impression one gains is not so much that stupidity is a congenital defect, but that, under certain circumstances, people are made stupid or that they allow this to happen to them. We note further that people who have isolated themselves from others or who lives in solitude manifest this defect less frequently than individuals or groups of people inclined or condemned to sociability. And so it would seem that stupidity is perhaps less a psychological than a sociological problem. It is a particular form of the impact of historical circumstances on human beings, a psychological concomitant of certain external conditions. Upon closer observation, it becomes apparent that every strong upsurge of power in the public sphere, be it of a political or of a religious nature, infects a large part of humankind with stupidity. It would even seem that this is virtually a sociological-psychological law. The power of the one needs the stupidity of the other. The process at work here is not that particular human capacities, for instance, the intellect, suddenly atrophy or fail. Instead, it seems that under the overwhelming impact of rising power, humans are deprived of their inner independence, and, more or less consciously, give up establishing an autonomous position toward the emerging circumstances. The fact that the stupid person is often stubborn must not blind us to the fact that he is not independent. In conversation with him, one virtually feels that one is dealing not at all with a person, but with slogans, catchwords and the like that have taken possession of him. He is under a spell, blinded, misused, and abused in his very being. Having thus become a mindless tool, the stupid person will also be capable of any evil and at the same time incapable of seeing that it is evil. This is where the danger of diabolical misuse lurks, for it is this that can once and for all destroy human beings.
    “Yet at this very point it becomes quite clear that only an act of liberation, not instruction, can overcome stupidity. Here we must come to terms with the fact that in most cases a genuine internal liberation becomes possible only when external liberation has preceded it. Until then we must abandon all attempts to convince the stupid person. This state of affairs explains why in such circumstances our attempts to know what ‘the people’ really think are in vain and why, under these circumstances, this question is so irrelevant for the person who is thinking and acting responsibly. The word of the Bible that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom declares that the internal liberation of human beings to live the responsible life before God is the only genuine way to overcome stupidity.”

  • Thanks for that Francois.

  • nothing this is emotion. so many were not reasoned into there positions but people used emotional arguments ie manipulation to get them to believe what they do. it is said you can reason someone out of what they weren’t reasoned into. Logic and facts have no sway on emotion. If they BELIEVE it is true it is as far as they are concerned so facts are irrelevant to them. (one politician say she would rather be ‘morally correct than factually correct’ give you an idea of what facts mean to them) (Uncle Joe [Biden not Stalin] said ‘we choose truth over facts’ again you can see how facts are inconvenient to them at best) how can you fight that?? how can you get them to real truth when all they care about it what makes them FEEL good??? how to you educate a ren and stimpy and also barney generation??? happiness joy and love are all that matter to them those are the only things that get them moving. even if you could use a emotional argument to get them to support you it would only work till the left comes up with a better emotional argument. then the fate of civilization becomes which side can emote the best.the good news is one day they will see the error of their ways. the bad news is it wont happen till they are being carted of to prison for upsetting someone more fragile than them under a iron fisted dictator. Well the church always thrives under persecution. maybe it is time for the western church to feel that sting once again.

    “Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:”

    the western church to a tea.

  • I love the ways some can barely string a sentence together in the Queens English – abominable grammar – perhaps that’s the funny side if it wasn’t so serious!

    Keep it up!

  • Reading some of the abusive correspondence that you receive paints for me a mental picture of a person, tucked away in a dimly lite, musty attic, hunchbacked over their computer, arms raised like an orchestra leader, gnarly fingers twitching above the keyboard and pantingly waiting for that four-letter word to activate their mind. Then with an eager finger, spell-check at the ready slowly type out their favorite one-word expletive.

  • Alone you cannot stand up to these evil forces Bill. I know you fervently believe that the Lord provides you with every bit of strength you need in your entire body. Not just your mind, these attacks surely go to the bone.
    Without the loving support you receive from your true followers you would not have lasted this long. You are protected by an army of spiritual warriors, their prayer support alone keeps you strong and impenetrable.
    Keep up this good fight Saint William.
    Incidentally, I am curious to read how these vile creatures all despise you so much, yet they keep reading your pieces. Surely the only reason your writing appears on their screens is a result of their own curiosity by opening your messages. I don’t have to read a single word from your keyboard, if I choose not to open your stuff.
    Wilhelmus Heggers.

  • Hi Bill,

    I did promise I’d not comment again, but it looks like you’d be interested to hear an update. I did not keep an eye on your website after all the damage and hurt I’d caused you (I feel embarrassed thinking about it as I type) so I missed your original article. But I read CultureWatch from time to time now, though these days for inspiration! Maybe in my demonic leftist rage I was reading your pieces because a tiny part of me knew they spoke truth, and it was a truth I needed to hear, even though I didn’t want to? There’s something in that.

    Am I a Christian now? I have no right to call myself that. I am still on a journey and I have a lot of work to do. I have rejected my atheism and accepted that belief in something bigger than man tempers narcissism. I see oh-so-clearly that socialists/communists are so blinded by a destructive ideology that is way more irrational than faith. I pray every day, and a lot of this is for forgiveness (maybe that is narcissistic – I’m a novice) and I keep a copy of the New Testament next to my bed and I’m reading it properly for the first time in my life. And I walk with my dog up to the churches in my home town and talk to congregants because I’m looking to find where I might fit in some time soon. So I’m not quite there yet, but I’m working on it.

    And since I gave up leftism, I’ve got a better job and been promoted, so I’m providing better for my family and being a better citizen. I do more in my local community, and I’ve cut down drinking by 90%, all of which makes me feel much better. I’ve made peace with people I have offended. Of course, seeing through the hollow narcissism of the left has cost me almost all of my old friends. But so what? They weren’t really friends. Seeing that has helped with the process of waking up. Some of them are now seeing my view and moving their positions!

    I work in education now and am horrified by the leftist ideology that is corrupting young people (and certainly corrupted me), especially at the moment in the UK on the issue of trans. I visit your articles for insight into that particular horror show.

    Thank you for your prayers, Bill. It looks like God heard you. Listening to Jordan Peterson (not sure if he is a Christian) has also helped me turn things around. I’ve come to terms with a lot, and been through a painful process of facing up to years of mistakes. I no longer recognise the person I was a decade ago, but I know I have way more work to do.

    I pray for you too, and pray for forgiveness. And I pray for those still trapped in their hate-fuelled bubble throwing insults your way. That was me once, though I shake with shame to think of it.

    What have I learned? I have learned most of all what pride means. And why pride always comes before a fall. Boy is that a painful lesson.

    Thank you for everything you do, and I hope you can accept my apology for years of abuse. I am trying with all my might to be on the right path now, and if I’m still around in a decade from now, God willing, perhaps I will get to call myself a Christian. Who knows?

    Kind regards,

    Richie Craze.

    PS. I have deleted my old email address as a way of deleting everything I got wrong in the past. Included here just to meet your posting requirements.

  • Wow, many thanks indeed Richie. I must admit, when I first saw your name I thought, ‘Uh oh – is he back to his old ways?!’ It is absolutely great to hear how you are doing, and it seems you have changed heaps. I of course forgive you. When God in Christ forgives us, how can we do anything less for others? Stories like yours are why I do what I do. And I will keep praying for you.

    We are all on a journey. I too was once a hardcore lefty who pushed a lot of agendas that I now look back on and cringe about. God was patient with me during that time, and allowed me to run my dead-end course. Now I am making up for lost time. So if he can convert me, he can convert anyone. If you are interested, I wrote up my conversion story here: https://billmuehlenberg.com/2012/06/27/coming-home-my-testimony-part-1/

    I am not sure if Peterson is a Christian yet, but he seems to be getting quite close. I pray for him as well. Bless you Richie – keep seeking, keep searching, keep reading the New Testament, keep chatting with Christians, and keep praying. And keep in mind the story of the prodigal son, where the father, seeing his wayward son returning home, runs out to meet him (in Luke 15). That is how Jesus pictures the heavenly Father when we come back home to him.

    Your comment made my day – thanks champ.

  • Thanks so much for accepting my apology, Bill. Know that it lightens my heart. I hope knowing this also gives you the strength to keep on doing what you are doing, and slowly winning hearts and minds! I’ll oppose leftism whenever and wherever I can from now on. God bless you.

  • Many thanks again Richie. Yes your comments and your changed life certainly does strengthen me and spurs me on to keep on keeping on. Bless you heaps.

  • Richie, the Father’s forgiveness came through the blood of Jesus. Jesus already paid the full price for your forgiveness. All you have to do is receive it and accept Him as Lord of your life. You don’t have to wait until you’re good enough, it’s not based on anything you do but what He has already done. Yes, we strive to live a holy life as Jesus did. We begin to mirror ourselves after His ways. But please know, you don’t have to wait to be accepted by the Father. Praying for you sir. So happy to hear your eyes are being opened to the Truth!

  • Hearing testimonies like Richie’s never gets old. A heart softening is the ultimate miracle from God.

    Richie, I hope and pray you find a good fellowship somewhere soon for you – and your dog!

  • Good on you Richie, lots of us were praying for you when we were first told about you, if you get the chance read Jeremiah Chapter 29 verse 13. All the best and may you go from strength to strength in Christ.

  • And that right there, makes *everything* worthwhile.
    Praise God!

  • Richie Craze, keep in touch with Bill Muehlenberg, he is an amazing Christian. I have known him for many many years, his advice will be the best, as he said he was in your very same shoes as a young man, and he knows where you are coming from right now. He will give you the guidance that you are searching for. God bless you!!!!

  • Many thanks all for your kindness and suggestions. It’s amazing what you can see when you have your eyes open, and I certainly keep visiting Bill’s site, for the social commentary as well. One other observation is that my experience of forgiveness has been truly humbling. There is no forgiveness in the secular world, and no tolerance of dissent. I know because I’ve been there and come through the other side. It’s amazing to learn that even Bill had to learn this lesson. It’s a tough one to learn, but it makes you stronger. How quickly that lesson is learned though: when you question one or two elements of leftist ideology, suddenly the whole house of cards comes crashing down and you’re surrounded by rubble and people hating you. It’s painful at first, then liberating. Keep on keeping on, guys.

  • Thanks again Richie. And just think of how many people you have inspired and encouraged by your story! You have started a chain reaction here. Bless ya and keep standing strong!

  • I do wish there were ‘like’ icons on sites like this so one can just agree with others without having to repeat what’s already been said, but here goes – thanks be to a mighty loving and forgiving God who washes us clean in His own time. It’s always uplifting to read of others coming to faith like RIchie has. God bless, you, RIchie, and you too, Bill, for not giving up when we all know it;s been so hard for you to keep going regardless of the reactions you’ve had to your well written articles. May we all continue to share them in spite of the opposition, because we know that Satan is an already defeated foe. 🙂

  • Nice to read about Richie.

    Was just wanting to encourage you Bill, to just look at the hateful comments in another light. Treat them like a joke book. In that light, some of them will be hilarious because they’re just so stupid!

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