CultureWatch

Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day...

Anzacs and Political Correctness

Apr 25, 2011

Let me say this boldly and bluntly: when the Anzacs died in huge numbers nearly a century ago, they did not do it so that we could legalise same-sex marriage. Nor did they fight and die to see creeping sharia engulf Australia. A former SAS head said that just recently.

He was immediately besieged by the gaystapo for daring to say this, just as I will be. The only difference is, he ended up apologising for his remarks, but I will not. Jim Wallace, who now heads up the Australian Christian Lobby, was 100 per cent correct in making his remarks.

According to the press, this is what he said on Twitter: “Just hope that as we remember Servicemen and women today we remember the Australia they fought for – wasn’t gay marriage and Islamic!” The article also says this: “He said he was moved to tweet about Australia and his beliefs after talking to his father, who served in World War II. ‘I’m sitting here with my 96-year-old father, a veteran of Tobruk,’ he said. ‘He’s telling me he can’t recognise the Australia he fought for’.”

But as is expected in today’s PC climate, all hell has broken out about this, at least by all the usual suspects: the militant homosexual lobby, the Islamic lobby, and a compliant and mischief-making MSM. And all the expected hate campaigns have had their effect, so Mr Wallace said later that he “unreservedly” apologised.

The press account puts it this way: “He later apologised on Twitter, posting: ‘Ok you are right my apologies this was the wrong context to raise these issues. ANZACs mean to (sic) much to me to demean this day, not intended.’

“He said he expected people to take ‘advantage’ of his comments on Twitter to ‘score a point’, but said he meant no offence on a day that means a lot to many Australians – including him. ‘I had no intention to offend anyone on Anzac Day,’ he said. ‘Anzac Day means a lot to me. I spent 32 years in the defence force’.”

This episode is about a number of things. One is free speech, or the lack thereof in modern PC Australia. Just as soon as anyone dares to express himself about any hot potato topic of the day, you can expect all the usual lobby groups to instantly engage in a hate campaign to silence the person.

Instead of living in a democracy where various points of view can be freely heard, we are instead living in a PC state where it is becoming increasingly risky to dare say anything that will rock the PC agendas. The homosexual lobby is clearly the most Stalinist in this regard. They will tolerate absolutely no dissent from their radical agenda.

Also, this episode shows just how very powerful a few militant lobby groups have become. They effectively control the MSM, and if they had their way, all alternate media outlets which do not comply with their radical agendas would be shut down or heavily censored.

Jim Wallace was absolutely right to say what he did about the significance of Anzac Day. It had absolutely nothing to do with young men dying so far away so that those who wish to destroy society by pushing their radical agendas could do so. And it certainly had nothing to do with the forces of political correctness shouting down anyone who dares to disagree with them.

If freedom is in large measure what the Anzacs have fought and died for, that includes the right of former military leaders to be able to speak freely about things that matter deeply to them, without being turned into a pariah by the hate brigades.

While we can always seek to be tactful, diplomatic and careful in our timing when we speak out on various issues in the public arena, there is never a need to apologise for speaking the truth. Who cares how many PC lobbyists and activists make a stink? Let them. Indeed, let the whole world make a stink if it will. But as Alexander Solzhenitsyn rightly said, “One word of truth shall outweigh the whole world.”

www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/make-big-match-a-grand-final-replay/story-fn7x8me2-1226044458549

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68 Responses to Anzacs and Political Correctness

  • Needless to say that the patriots that fought in the defense of freedom and liberty, fought for the preservation of the Australian values and way of life.
    Barry Koh

  • The reality is, the majority of Australians would agree with this man’s comments. They are just not the ones commenting, as they are busy raising the families of the future.
    Jane Petridge

  • I don’t think that there are too many people who will be upset by Mr. Wallace’s comments – they are just not the people who will make the most noise. The PC Brigade are far too quick to brand anyone who disagrees with them as ‘racist’,’ bigoted’, or ‘homophobic’. Perhaps it makes them feel better – who knows.
    Joan Davidson

  • Bill,

    If, as you say, Jim Wallace was 100% correct in his remarks why did he unreservedly offer an apology for his actions?

    Surely the mark of truth is that it can stand on its own, instead of being redacted and deleted as if it never existed (shame about the Streisand Effect and all).

    He has now sought to expunge his misdemeanour in the same way other right wing conservative Christians have through online discourse (e.g Wendy Francis, another ACL plant into Family First / the politics of the nation last election). The Internet will route around his attempts and expose the shallowness of those who defend his mistake for who they are.

    I have no issue with his speaking up on what pays his bills via his ministry and lobby funds. I have an issue with him politicising it with the ANZAC traditions and sacrifices made, since he, like your own discourse on politics and life, remains a small, fringe segment on the periphery of life in Australia, both Christian and otherwise. The ANZACs fought for all Australia, all of it, multicultural and multifaith.

    The irony here is, as Scripture teaches, from the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. Jim spoke up and made a mistake. He subsequently apologised for that mistake. Now here you are, Bill, trading on his actions as if they are justified, essentially treating Jim’s public apology as worthless in the eyes of both God and men. The mere fact you don’t mention the apology shows that your line of reasoning for your post remains imperfect and fallible.

    Might I suggest you include some postscripts and revisions to your pitch in this respect? And no redactions or censorship either.

    Lawrence Meckan

  • Maybe Jim should have used the Pontius Pilate defence “what I have written, I have written”!
    John Angelico

  • Freedom includes being able to live one’s life as one wants, or is freedom only available to Christians, Mr Muehlenberg?

    If the version of “freedom” that those soldiers were fighting for excludes certain members of society – not that you even have the right to put words into their mouths – then those soldiers weren’t fighting for freedom at all.

    Naturally, you won’t allow this comment to appear on your website, because they disagree with your point of view.

    Steve Mansfield

  • The problem, i think is that for every Jim Wallace, there are 6 or 7, or maybe up to a hundred others who quietly believe the same thing. I am 31, and my grandparents are disgusted to see the way Australia has become. So am I. Where is the honour? Where is the openness to debate? Where is the freedom, when people are screamed down for having a difference of opinion?

    In saying this, Australia is still the best country in the world to live…for now.

    Ben Mathewson, UK

  • As a homosexual (wait, don’t skip this post yet, please), I was only offended by Mr Wallace’s comments because it suggests that they actively thought that they were fighting for a solely heterosexual, christian Australia. Rather, I am certain that they fought for a free Australia where people had the right to live their lives without being harrassed or having thoughts and feelings decided for them. I don’t care one way or the other if gay marriage comes into being, but people who do want it should be allowed to get married if they wish. I am quite sure the world will not end and pedophilia will not become as acceptable just because we as a group are given the choice whether to marry or not.

    As for Islam, I admit I am scared by the idea of my country becoming muslim. I don’t believe in the religion’s extreme views on things.

    Could you think of this a lesser of two evils thing? Would you prefer a bunch of homosexuals in loving relationships minding their own business, or a bunch of people telling you how you are to dress, how you are to treat women, how to fight to keep every other possible type of person oppressed?

    Cameron McGinn

  • Thanks Lawrence

    It is not really worth replying to you, let alone even posting your comments. You obviously have not even read this article. I did of course mention his apology. As it happens, I think it was uncalled for. Everything he said previously was exactly right.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Its not just the Gaystapo. Both my parents and parents-in-law have commented on just how much more dictatorial and regulated this country has become since when they were younger. The gov’t seems to be intruding in more and more areas of our lives.

    I suspect the diggers of old did not fight for a country that was going down the path of soft totalitarianism either!

    Damien Spillane

  • I know many won’t agree and I doubt I’ll change anyone’s mind, but this isn’t about political correctness. Wallace made his comments and was criticised for them. But that isn’t a sign of political correctness necessarily. If anyone puts their views out into public debate, they have to accept some people won’t like them and criticise them, as well as applaud them or stay silent. If anyone had written that the ANZACS died for any of the things Wallace listed there should have been equal outrage.

    Only Wallace chose to withdraw them and apologise. No one forced him to do so. It’s not like Wallace has been afraid to take an alternate view to the ‘PC view’ and stand up for his arguments against opposition. Wallace’s comments were just dumb, even if you agree with him you can reasonably come to that conclusion.

    Personally I think his comments were a disgrace. But not for my disagreement with the sentiments of his comments, but because he was prepared to use the ANZAC spirit and tradition to advance his political agenda. I think there is a reasonably strong tradition in this country to not use ANZAC day as a wheelbarrow in any direction, and it is welcome.

    As for what the ANZACs fought for, some how I think different people fought for different things, but a common trend was likely to be a free and prosperous Australia. An Australia where people can have debates and disagree, but respect the memory of those who have fallen in that debate. Which Wallace did not do. And an Australia continues to grow irrespective of our different views of which direction. And the direction shouldn’t be debated on such a sacred day.

    Tim Wilson

  • Thanks Steve

    I of course have to call your bluff here. Homosexuals are free to do whatever they want. They are even completely free to marry, if they simply play by the rules of the game. But because they want to redefine marriage out of existence, and flaunt the rules, they have zero right to cry foul, and moan about discrimination or denial of freedom. They have no right to destroy the institution of marriage in the vain attempt to remake in their own image.

    And in the same way, the Anzacs were not fighting for the right of pornographers, or paedophiles, or polygamists, and so on. So spare us this foolish, illogical rant.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Thanks Cameron

    Sorry but you are off the mark here big time, but not unexpectedly. The point is, when the Anzacs fought, they were fighting both the Islamic Turks, and for freedom as they understood it. None would have had the idea that anything goes, and that freedom means moral anarchy and the destruction of marriage and family. Jim Wallace’s father is just one example of this type of thinking.

    And I also have to call your bluff about “a bunch of homosexuals in loving relationships minding their own business”. It is exactly because they are not minding their own business, but want to totally remake society in their own image, destroying marriage and family in the process, that people have a right to be very concerned about all this. Indeed, if they simply would do their own thing quietly and privately, no one would be making any protests, But it is because they are seeking to ram their agenda down the throats of an unwilling public, and will use any means available to harass and persecute those who will not comply, that so many people are absolutely aghast at their activism, animosity and intolerance.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Thanks Tim

    I can’t speak for Jim Wallace of course but it is clear that he was heavily pressured to recant, just as I am now being pressured. Indeed, you will not see most of the activist comments here, either because they are too nasty and hate filled, lacking in any argument of substance, or they refuse to give their full names as my commenting rules require. In the latter case, they are either a bit challenged when it comes to basic literacy, or they are spineless wonders who prefer to launch their attacks under the guise of anonymity.

    And I await to see you protesting when your buddies launch their secularist jihads against Christians on some “sacred day”. But I won’t be holding my breath.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Apparently some high profile Christians disagree with you Bill

    RevBillCrews Rev. Bill Crews
    It’s so sad that people who should know better have to use ANZAC DAY to pick on people they don’t like. It’s unchristian in the extreme
    2 hours ago

    simonmoyle Simon Moyle
    As a Christian leader, I deplore @JimWallaceACL’s comments re: Anzac Day & homosexuals & Muslims. Let’s reflect Jesus’ love for all.
    1 hour ago
    »
    Simon Moyle
    simonmoyle Simon Moyle
    Jesus said, “Love one another in the same way I have loved you.” JimWallaceACL isn’t showing that kind of love at the mo. He can do better.
    1 hour ago
    »
    Simon Moyle
    simonmoyle Simon Moyle
    For what it’s worth, I’m a Christian leader and @JimWallaceACL doesn’t remotely speak for me or any other Christians I know.

    Andrew M. Potts

  • Thanks Andrew

    And your point is what Andrew? What exactly have you contributed to this debate? Do you really think you have just come along and made some brilliant debating point? Are we now all supposed to fall down in amazement before your remarkable debating skills?

    Finding just two (out of tens of thousands) of Christian leaders who are trendy lefties is not hard to do and tells us nothing. Such folk have long ago made it clear that they have abandoned the biblical position on this and other issues. These two have been pushing radical trendy PC agendas for years now. Dragging them up here hardly makes for compelling argumentation. One can always find renegade Christians who are happy to push any PC line.

    And isn’t it strange, but every time I quote from some of your vaunted leaders to make a point (eg., that they don’t want SSM), you guys dismiss me, attack me, and ignore what they have in fact said. In those cases you guys are so happy to just shoot the messenger, but here we are supposed to take you seriously with your mere two “expert witnesses”. Sorry, but if you are trying to win the debate here, you have failed rather miserably.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • ANZAC Day’s just a day on the calendar when we choose to commemorate the sacrifice that soldiers made fighting for our country. World War I lasted for years so we could really have chosen just about any day of the year and called it ANZAC Day. It’s an appropriate day to discuss issues related to this as they naturally come up in conversation and are on one’s mind.

    Indeed one should consider that many of the ANZACs fought against the Turks in World War I. Eventually in 1948, the nation of Israel was reborn, an ally of ours which is openly opposed by most of the Muslim world.

    One must also consider that homosexual acts were a serious criminal offence across Australia.

    Matt Vinay

  • The Australia the ANZACS fought for was Christian by nature and still is today, despite many minorities wishing it not to be. We are not Islamic and we are not homosexual, both of these are negative contributers to society and produce little positive effect on our culture and community. God bless the ANZACS for their courage and bravery in protecting the land of the Holy Spirit, and the good people of this country should fight to keep it that way! Bill, you are a legend. Keep up the good work.
    Luke Portelli

  • I agree with Jim’s original statement and your comments and responses Bill. The truth is no mystery. Trying to change facts is futile. Australia is a free country, but apparently only the PC lefty views are acceptable? Wake up Australia! Good on you Bill!
    Lynn Nerdal

  • Andrew if you’d bothered to read this blog recently or regularly, perhaps you would have noticed that the Biblical notion of love is quite different from what love tends to be seen as today. There’s a good blog post by Bill from just two days ago which I suggest you read: www.billmuehlenberg.com/2011/04/23/the-cleansing-of-the-temple/

    Indeed, we know Jesus loves the people of Israel and yet he still got very angry over their sin, physically demonstrating his anger in a most vivid way. If Jesus had ignored the sin that would’ve been unloving.

    Righteous anger is found throughout the Bible. Indeed in the Book of Acts we read about Stephen the first follower of christ to be martyred, who was murdered after making a loving speech that was also filled with anger.

    Jesus said that if he was persecuted, so would followers of Christ. Speaking out against what is wrong tends to lead to persecution.

    Whether you agree or not with what Jim Wallace had to say, and whether or not you consider it to be righteous anger, it’s obvious that the tweets you quoted show a clear lack of knowledge and/or belief in clear Biblical principles.

    Matt Vinay

  • Fully stand by what you’ve said here Bill.
    Maybe the question should be raised, would you fight for this country today, due to how low this country has gone now? That was probably what was going through Jim’s father’s mind.
    Nathan Keen

  • Attack an external outgroup? Check (Muslims).
    Attack an internal outgroup? Check (homosexuals).
    Militaristic patriotism? Check.

    There you have it. The formula for Right-wing populism captured in a tweet.

    Kai Taylor

  • Thanks Kai

    Throw out a red herring? Check
    Engage in non sequiturs? Check.
    Offer nothing of value to the debate? Check.

    There you have it. The formula for Left-wing secularism captured in a comment.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • I too have to laugh at Cameron’s assertions, perhaps he doesn’t get out much to know the militancy that runs through the homosexual movement. I shouldn’t have to explain to my 6 year old niece why someone in nothing but pink hot pants is parading/marching like a fool, one street away from my family home while we’re out for a walk.

    No ANZAC that fell to protect our freedoms could have imagined an Australia like this, simple as that.

    Bill Riz

  • I agree with your comments Bill, except what the ANZACS of WWI fought for. Every Anzac day we are told what people thought they fought for. I wonder if the volunteers joined up more for the cultural belief in King and mother Britain, and for adventure with their mates, than for any philosophical cause?
    BTW, the brilliance of the defeat of the Anzacs at Gallipolli is that it eventually led to them being strategic in the creation of the modern state of Israel. Would that have happened if Gallipolli was successful?
    John Subritzky, NZ

  • A member of my family, an Army nurse, died miserably at the hands of the Japanese. She died for her country. If she had known that in the future some Australians would be demanding the freedom to hold pornographic “pride” parades and “marry” others of the same sex she would have stated the obvious: such nonsense is not worth fighting for. And having been beaten by sadistic guards, could she have even imagined homosexuals in the USA decades later holding public fairs celebrating sadism?
    John Snowden

  • Lawrence, Steve and Cameron, you are being deliberately disingenuous about the definition of freedom.

    “Freedom” as the diggers understood it, is NOT the same as “licence”.

    There is no freedom to tear this country up with violent riots, to steal, to first generate and then feed drug habits, to kill the unborn via abortion, or the aged and infirm via euthanasia.

    There is no freedom to re-define the cultural standards of marriage and family, or to throw public decency into the gutter via porn and gross public displays, whether in art galleries or on advertising billboards.

    All of these examples are licence – and an attempt to overthrow any idea of right and wrong in favour of a self-absorbed “do your own thing” morality which will be self-destructive in the end.

    Jim Wallace and his grandfather were correct – ANZACs and diggers did not go to fight for licence, they went to fight for freedom with responsibility.

    John Angelico

  • Quite right John

    Simply throwing the word “freedom” around here adds nothing to the debate. Neither the Anzacs nor anyone else – expect for extreme anarchists and ultraradical libertarians – have ever defined freedom as the ability to do whatever you want. By that idiotic definition the paedophiles should have complete freedom to do what they want, and arsonists, and rapists, and everyone else. No one fought and died for that sort of lunacy.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Andrew Potts – high profile? And…?

    Rev Bill Crews: Wayside Chapel; making a patronising attack on “someone who should know better” ?

    Simon Moyle: Peace Activist taking Jesus words out of context, to make a pretext?

    Your point?

    John Angelico

  • John Subritzky whilst those factors you mention would’ve played a part, I would think most people wouldn’t go fighting a war unless they believed it was just.

    In any case, wanting to help defend a nation that shared so many common values with us that needed protecting, a nation to which we owe a great deal, the nation through which we received our Judeo-Christian heritage (sure there have been other Judeo-Christian influences, but this mainly came here from Britain).

    Even if one does not realise that things come from a Judeo-Christian heritage, one may still want to defend them.

    Matt Vinay

  • Bill,

    Anzac Day is not an occasion to be exploited for political purposes, whether left or right. Wallace overstepped the mark, and should be respected for admitting he was wrong.

    Marty O’Farrell
    ex 2/4 RAR

  • I was rather perplexed about that myself when I first read it. Actually it’s not out of character with other aspects of ACL in that it is more apologetic about what it says. ACL tends to be a weak link on many things. I think that there is something wrong there.
    Greg Byrne

  • Oh boy! Andrew, Love one another as I have loved you? The basis of Jesus love was truth, real love tells the truth even if it hurts. If you look most of Jesus personal words shocked the hearers into reality just like an artillery shell landing.
    And the battle? Lets get it right, it is fought not for the freedom to sin but from sin.

    And the old diggers, just sit down with a few of them and ask them what it was all about.
    More than one has said to me with great sadness in their voices that they cannot understand the current insanity that is gripping our country as what they thought they fought for is being thrown out the window.
    Jim Wallace yet again disappoints as he backs down on the truth.
    Rob Withall

  • Thanks to Jane Petridge for her comments. Most people don’t read twitters (is that the right word?) or even blogs; they are too busy going about the everyday tasks of work and family. But they do care about the constant erosion of the FOUNDATIONS of a social order that has given us, in this country, RELATIVE freedom, peace and prosperity. My father, as an example, who served for 5 years in the 2nd AIF, became increasingly distressed at the deterioration of public behaviour, civility and self discipline – the Gay Mardi Gras appalled him. He often lamented that fighting the war was perhaps all in vain if this is what the country had come to. He passed from this life in 1996 and I often wonder how he would handle the oppressive climate we now live in – like most ordinary people he wouldn’t tweet, blog, scream or shout – he’d be too tired.
    Col Maynard

  • Marty, so often things like Easter and Christmas get exploited by anti-Christians who use it as an opportunity to attack Christianity.

    Questioning whether the Australia of today is what the ANZACs really fought for is perfectly reasonable in comparison and is really an important question to be asked. It really could have been asked at any time during the year, but because we think of such things on ANZAC Day it was the perfect opportunity.

    Matt Vinay

  • Matt,

    I have a gay son. I wish it wasn’t so, and so does he, but we both accept the situation. He has now regrettably lost his faith because of intolerance towards him by his fellow Christians. It disturbs me greatly that some Christians are so hateful of gays that they elevate their hate to be a major article of faith. We need to accept that humans come in many shapes and forms, and show some compassion towards those who are different, even if we don’t understand them. Gays have a tough enough time in this life without Christians making it worse for them.

    The original ANZACs presumably fought for their country, and all of their countrymen. And that means everybody, not just those who conform to the majority definition of normality.

    Marty O’Farrell

  • Thanks Marty

    The word “hate” is thrown around far too recklessly all the time nowadays by homosexual activists and can mean almost anything. So it all depends on what you have in fact encountered. If it is what I would say here, it is hard to square that with hate. And I would say that the most loving and compassionate thing a Christian can tell a homosexual (especially one claiming to also be a Christian) is that one does not have to be homosexual. Many tens of thousands of homosexuals have left the homosexual lifestyle, and I personally know many such people. That is why Jesus Christ came – to set people free, and not keep them trapped in a sinful, dead-end lifestyle. If we say Jesus cannot change people then we effectively call Christ a liar and say we disbelieve the gospel.

    Just how is it being unloving, intolerant and uncompassionate to speak truth to people who desperately need to hear the truth? The last thing any sinner wants to hear is that they are lost without Christ, and must repent and accept the gospel. Yet that is the most loving thing any believer can do. That has nothing to do with hate or being uncompassionate. That some believers can be unloving and harsh does happen and regrettably so, but the truth of the matter does not change. We have all had miserable experiences in life, but should we just use them as excuses for the rest of our life? Or will we take some responsibility for our lives, and allow God to do the deep work in us that he so desperately wants to do?

    So I am not sure why you two say you are not happy with this situation but have nonetheless just accepted it anyway. Believers are never called to just accept sin and act as if the Holy Spirit has not been given to us to radically change lives. He radically changed my life and that of billions of other people. To put up the white flag of surrender here is not the answer. Agreeing with God is.

    And it is a major article of faith that Christ came to save sinners and transform lives. We are all sinners and Christ died a horrible death so that we don’t have to stay in that situation of lostness, brokenness and darkness. And of course to say all this has nothing to do with hate. But I will keep you two in my prayers. If you want to be put in touch with those who have found full healing and restoration in Christ, let me know.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • To me, Jim Wallace’s better judgement was momentarily overshadowed by the powerful emotions of ANZAC day and the presence of his father. It’s called an untimely human mistake. And looking at his apology, I think the main aim of that was to not detract from the focus of the ANZACs. Naturally the PC media will try to make an example of him as a warning to anyone who dares to disagree with it. This is not the Australia that the veterans fought for. I agree with both Jim Wallace and his father. Any fascist elements of Islam and the Homosexual lobby must be recognised and opposed. We must be free to disagree.
    Anthony McGregor

  • Hi Bill. Never posted before. Hope it is ok.

    I would think what Wallace should have said was this. It would sound much better.

    “Just hope that as we remember Servicemen and women today we remember the Australia they fought for – was heterosexual marriage and christian!”

    Calling into account particular groups for perceived moral decline, fear or xenophobia will always alienate people as it comes across as bigoted.

    Wallaces non-apology was of course for the way he said it, not the message. Therefore it would have been entirely appropriate on another day to say what he did.

    That is the beauty of living in a country such as this. He can say what he wants just as you are able to, Bill. In other countries, being a minority or outspoken often leads to death.

    Peter Geoghegan

  • Bill,

    I said that both I and my son wish it were otherwise, not that I wasn’t happy. A slight distinction.

    The reason I said that was because life is very tough for gays because of the discrimination they cop from others.

    I’m sure if my son could change, he would. You’d have to have a death wish to actually choose to be gay. Maybe some have managed to change teams, but human sexuality is a complex issue, and the issue is not helped by simplistic assumptions and stereotyping.

    Marty O’Farrell

  • Thanks again Marty

    You have mentioned your son’s faith (or former faith) but you have not mentioned your own. But as I said, if he – or you – claim to be a follower of Christ, then your first duty is to agree with God, and not call him a liar. God is in the business of changing lives. He changed mine big time as he did with so many millions of others.

    It is not at all a question of your son changing. It is a question of allowing God to change your son – if he is really open to change. But many are not, and instead simply embrace their lifestyle, instead of agreeing with God about it, and allowing him to do a wonderful work of transformation.

    If a person says that God cannot change people out of their destructive lifestyle, then they cannot claim to be real followers of Christ. Change is difficult of course for all sorts of addictive lifestyles. No one is saying it will be easy or necessarily instantaneous, but if you say change is not possible, then you are simply shaking your fist at God and making excuses for a dead-end lifestyle. Real believers submit to God, and give them everything, including their sexuality, their leanings, and so on. But I will keep praying.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Cameron in response to your post, “would you prefer a bunch of homosexuals in loving relationships minding their own business” – a friend of mine recently went to take his young children to use public toilets and there were homosexuals having sex quite openly, he then went to the local police station to complain and only to be told, there was nothing they could do. This is the problem, it is never “minding their own business” it is shoved into our faces at every opportunity – especially on TV and other media sources and if anyone dares to disagree, we are called homophobic or intolerable or even hateful! I’m pretty much fed up with it all simply because now we have lost our freedom in that we are too scared to say what we really feel! The fact that homosexual lobbyists are trying to encourage teaching homosexuality in primary schools just sickens me that anyone would even think that it would be ok to teach any sort of sex to any primary or kindergarten age children is beyond belief! Homosexuals have taken their selfish “out and proud” slogan way too far at the expense of so much and it is time to go back into the closet or stop being so selfish!
    Paul Hotchkin

  • Good point Jane.

    I completely agree with Bill too. This is a serious free speech issue. As a defender of free political speech, I was dismayed by the media’s blatant hypocrisy.

    But it’s good the public is on Wallace’s side judging from Andrew Bolt’s more-representative website. (They even turned on the columnist’s PC remark.)

    I would not have apologised either. It shows weakness. If the Australian Christian Lobby bows to political correctness under soft fire – how will they respond to greater challenges? When you say sorry for Christian speech it sends out a confusing message to young people.

    Also, I’m not sure what the elite media means about “bad timing”? Do we have to live our lives around their calendars? Forget that. And are they aware that Islamists kill gays? They’re just bizarre.

    Ben-Peter Terpstra

  • Bill your comments are spot on – as are Jim Wallace’s.

    A couple of points: the remark is about ‘gay marriage’ not gays. Australian law describes marriage as between a ‘man and a woman’.
    ‘Freedom’ is never licence! Freedom carries a rider; freedom is the right to do as you like – for the good of the community.

    Pat Healy

  • Wallace’s comment was on gay-marriage not homosexuals per se and Islam not Muslims. The former is a powerful lobby greased by an uncritical MSM, the latter a powerful global thrust. Unchallenged both will work against the strengths and quality of our society. ANZAC day is a good day to engender debate and focus on these issues. It enhances not diminishes the day.
    Ian Clarkson

  • Interesting comment on Andrew Bolt’s blog:

    “I’m Gay and fully support what Jim Wallace said. The whole idea of ‘gay marriage’ would have sounded so preposterous to Diggers that they would have thought some one who mentioned it was either nuts… or pulling their gaitered legs. In fact only a decade or so ago 99.9% of the public (including many Gays) would have thought, as many still do, the ‘gay marriage’ agenda was the raving of lunatics.”

    Paul Wakeford

  • The ANZACS fought for Australia – the Australia with value. However, our society is disintegrating and losing its value from all the time-wasting political correctness that is leading us to nothing but incorrectness.

    We have the physical body that we have, and we should accept it, nourish it, and act in spirit accordance to the body that we have. A woman should dress and act like a woman, and a man should do the same. Indeed Christ accepts all and loves all, and as a Christian – we all want to be like Christ. How could a person be Christ-like if he or she rejects his/her own sexual identity? Do we want our nation and the rest of the world to grow in chaos with lost sheeps who rejects his/her own identity?

    In terms of Islam, there are plenty of places whereby Australian Christians and even non-believers are treated badly by the so called Islamist. I also recognise the moderate and the well educated ones. However, should we sit back and allow our very nation be Islamised? Would all the Anglo-Australians cry out in 100 years time asking Muftis and Imams for a “Sorry” because their generation and identity has been stolen? Do you think these fundamentalists would say Sorry?

    The ANZACS fought for our freedom, for our Christian values, and for our safety. The homosexuals (which should not be compared with other sexual disorders – though it’s neither better or worse) predominantly are the ones that are anti-Christians these days. There are many Christian groups that take care of ex-gays. There are many churches that takes care of homosexuals with AIDS.

    This is not even a discussion about lesser of two-evils. The bottom line is, our Australia is disintegrating in values. The Australia that homosexuals love, that Islamist desires, and the Christians protect!

    Anne Martinez

  • The State asks and/or conscripts men to die in defence of their country; a state that is aggressively destroying the unifying elements of the country that makes it what it is and worthy of ultimate sacrfrifice can’t count on this continuing.

    Marriage and our Judeo-Christian hertiage is a sine-qua non condition of Australian identity and as it happens Western society full stop. Who would sacrifice their lives for an atomised, balkanised so-called nation? Two things that the statists and central planners and bureaucratic class actively seek.

    I applaud Wallace for bringing our attention to the ‘whatness’ of Australia and how it might be that our liberties are truly safeguarded for the sake of our children and the very persistence of our nation through time.

    Martin Snigg

  • Jim Wallace has earned his right to speak out on such an occassion as ANZAC day!! He served in the military for 32 years!!!
    Australia’s heritage is Judeo-Christian!!!
    Sexual immorality has been in the world since the devil entered this world with his sin! God saved Noah and his family but the rest of the inhabitants of the world perished, having given into sexual immorality and not repenting!
    Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed as a result of the sexually immoral life-style and lack of repentance of the inhabitants.
    Simply because people choose to live a life-style that is in direct disobedience to God’s rules doesn’t make it right and in the Bible, God calls sexual immoral acts SIN! It’s God’s will that they will repent (turn away from their sin)!!
    As for Islam, it’s teaching oppose the Bible – and calls for it’s adherence to kill Jews and Christians. Those who adhere to that religion are encouraged to lie to get into positions of power – the Bible says God is truth and cannot lie – it also says, that satan is the father of lies.
    It wrongly teaches them that Sharia law is supreme over other laws!! A prime example of this is the wickedness of the “Islamic council of Queensland” – on their web site stating that they are the only ones to accredite Halal meat places and those wanting to be accredited must comply with Sharia law!!!
    We must denounce this now and demand our government take action!!!
    Another example is a group called Avaaz trying to put Rupert Murdoch’s News limited out of business in the UK. The Avaaz group is actually a front for an international terrorist group – they are trying to rid the world of democracies by on-line petitioning and other actions!!!
    Barb Hoc

  • My Grandfather was a veteran, who passed away 2 years ago this May, he was becoming appalled at the way australia was going, and i am sure that he would think Anzac day was the perfect day for people too ask what he and all the other Anzacs fought for! Did they fight for an Australia, where there is no respect for the elderly, where children have more rights than their parents where discipline is a thing of the past? where Muslims and others can say our christmas decorations and easter egg hunts are an affront to their beliefs and their culture so we stop putting them in our streets and stop them in our daycare and kindergartens? I THINK NOT. I am proud too be an Aussie but saddened and angry at the way OUR Country is going all Australians need too step back, think and take steps too ensure our Anzac’s didn’t fight and lose thier lives for nothing, that our country stays the wonderful place it has always been.
    Karen Chapman

  • “Would you prefer a bunch of homosexuals in loving relationships minding their own business …”

    Though others have already commented on this, I thought I would also point in my 2 cents worth.

    In late 70s & early 80s, whilst a student at QLD Uni., I noted the tactics of the homosexual lobby. “No-one should force their beliefs on anyone else, e.g. we should be able to live as we wish and you can live as you wish.” I thought that in a pluralistic society that was a reasonable compromise.

    As Bill and others have pointed out, that is not what the political activists who speak in your name (homosexuality) want, rather to force upon us your beliefs. Mind your business and we can live in the same society. You have always had the right to criticise Christianity as much as you like. We just wish the right to preach our religion in the same way you preach your beliefs.

    Graeme Cumming

  • Good article, Bill! It saddens me that the freedom and tolerance my great-uncles died for in WWI is not reciprocated by various PC lobby groups. ANZAC Day should not be hijacked for other purposes; discussion of various issues, even those relating to the defence force, lessens our tribute to those who have served our country and died for us. ANZAC Day is about commemorating and remembering their sacrifice. Lest we forget….
    Mishka Gora

  • To use the argument put forward by small “L” liberals regarding objections to the corrupt content on public broadcasting, if you don’t like Jim Wallace’s point of view dont follow him on Twitter.
    Anthony McGregor

  • Andrew’s point is quite simple – he is a homosexual and he did not like Jim’s comment.
    What a pity he did not simply ‘come out’ and state that, instead of trying to put Bill down with comments from others.

    Of course we all know that ‘put downs’ are the tool of trade for those with no substantial arguments of their own.

    Personally, I commended Jim, but asked why he felt the need to apologise.

    Peter Stokes

  • The homosexual lobby and the Muslim lobby are simply taking advantage of the spade-work put in by Feminists. It is the feminists who first shut down any criticism and gave birth to the PC mobsters. Feminists showed the way to silence people with calumny and mendacity. These other groups have learned the lessons well. No doubt they will be just as successful at milking the public purse and blaming the rest of us.
    Dr. Christopher Langan-Fox

  • Thanks Peter

    Yes quite right. At least a few commentators here were taken in by his deception, thinking he was just a Christian offering another point of view, when in fact he is a leading homosexual activist and an editor of the homosexual paper, the Sydney Star Observer. But we expect such underhandedness and lack of transparency from these activists. Any mischief is justifiable as they seek to push their radical agenda.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • I found it interesting that nobody (that I read anyway) dared to criticise Jim Wallace’s dad. I wonder if he ‘violated the true Anzac spirit’? I suspect the critics are all soft, since once can safely presume Jim was speaking on behalf of his father. Bill is right to call many of them spineless.

    I also love the irony of how a few comments here refer to the Anzacs fighting for freedom for all, yet simultaneously argue they only want that freedom for those who agree with everything they say. For anyone daring to express slightly contrast opinions, it’s public ostracization for you!

    How typically hypocritical of the Politically Correct Haters. Apparently freedom is only for those who think right!

    What’s especially ironic is that this came just a day after yet another Easter where the greatest sacrifice ever made in the history of the world gets largely ignored and no PC Nazis get their nose out of joint if someone claims Jesus was all about promoting abortion or the idea carbon dioxide is evil. But dare to loosely associate the Anzacs with the moral slide in Australia that’s been taking place the last few decades – Whoah there!

    If there had to be a choice between Anzac Day and Easter Sunday, I know which one should win every time, and I suspect the majority of the original soldiers who inspired the commemoration would have agreed. Easter Sunday is the only day where we remember that death has been destroyed for those who avail themselves of the life of Jesus. (Imagine the world – not just Australia – if Jesus had not risen.)

    Refer to Bill’s previous article and you may go some way to understanding why. There are numerous Christian threads that tie into the history of this nation – consider the fact that when the 800 Lighthorsemen made that famous ride to Beersheba, they specifically fought muslims and created the potential for the re-establishment of Jerusalem to its rightful owners, the nation of Israel. Many, if not all, carried Bibles and read intelligently out of them about the historical lands they were taking action in. To be sure, they were rough men, but I expect they would’ve found all this pomp and ceremony nowadays a bit off-putting. They gained the contempt of many of the British officers (and even some of their enemies!) because they refused to stoop to niceties. For example, when challenged by a British Military policeman afterwards (they were looking after their horses on the Palestinian coast) that shorts were not allowed on the beach, they promptly dropped them, saluted, and continued on their way! But they themselves wrote in personal letters about ‘Our learned padre’ and made comments like this about Gaza: “But what interests me is that the youngest nation in the world will soon be thundering at its gates…. What with Samson, and then Israelites and Philistines, Abraham and Moses and Isaac and the Australians and New Zealanders… a man doesn’t know in whose dust he is riding.”

    I cannot adequately express in words my contempt for those who vacuously speak of freedom (and John Angelico is right about the redefinition to mean ‘licence’) as they simultaneously condemn Jim Wallace’s comments. May they hang their heads in shame. The free Australia they live in they do not deserve as they have the chutzpah to denounce the ideological ground on which that freedom is based. Like it or not, that freedom comes directly from Christianity, the very thing they hate. You can bleat about Australia now being a secular country as much as you like – Australia would not be as free nor as ‘lucky’ if the words of Jesus Christ were unknown here. That is just plain historical fact. To the secularists I say this: you can bulldoze every church in Australia and deport or kill every Christian, but nothing you can do will ever be able to go back in time to erase what embarrasses and condemns you the most – Jesus Christ deeply embedded in the lives of many of your folkheroes and your greatest historical stories.

    There’s a whole gamut of Australian figures, only some of whom I detailed in this comment.

    Wake up Australia! Wake up to your history! Wake up to your legacy! Your inheritance of freedom has more to do with the church on the corner than the flame at the Shrine. Yes, the sacrifices of the Anzacs were important but lives only have value because God gave us that life in the first place. Denying the past is the road to ruin. Australia is Australia because of Jesus Christ and no other.

    One last thing – what seems to have been overlooked in all of this is the incompatibility of the homosexual lobby with Islam (btw, I note how the media spun Jim’s comment away from an ideological criticism of gay marriage and Islam and twisted it to make it personal. Ian Clarkson was spot on. That despicable rag called the Age even falsely put the word ‘Muslims’ in their headline.) If those practising or supporting open homosexuality are so mentally weak to think that their ‘freedoms’ are threatened by one electronic comment that a tiny percentage of Australians would’ve read, they might be surprised one day in the future when they get dragged out of their houses and beheaded in front of a raging mob, something no Christian would ever vaguely contemplate. I wonder if they would be thinking about how bad Christians like Jim Wallace are at the precise moment their heads got separated from their necks, but I somehow doubt it.

    But, of course, this glaring and potentially bloody incongruity is overlooked. The common enemy is truth and Christianity, that’s all that matters to the haters. I wonder if they love peace and freedom more or less than they hate Christians and therefore hate Jesus. Time will tell.

    “There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing love for all religions.” — G.K. Chesterton

    Mark Rabich

  • How can anyone claim what values the Anzacs fought for? They were all individuals, and each would have his own motivations and reasons for enlisting. They were there to assist Britain, not for the defence of Australia, since the first World War was fought far from Australian shores. It’s very easy to make claims that large groups of people all conform to some kind of groupthink, but such claims ignore our knowledge of human nature, human diversity, human psychology and individual behaviour.

    It’s therefore invalid to make statements such as “the Anzacs fought for freedom to do X”, or that “the Anzacs didn’t fight so that minority group X could do Y”. These are silly statements to make, especially if the issue under discussion didn’t even exist as a policy question in 1915. It was a very different era from today.

    Jack Sanders, Sydney

  • Yes and no Jack. While there may be plenty of different reasons why the early ANZACS went to fight (some might have been drafted, some might have volunteered to get a bit of adventure, see the world, escape some domestic situation, and so on) the point still remains. As I and others have already said, few if any were fighting for some ultra-libertarian understanding of freedom wherein any goes. They likely did not envisage that they were shedding their blood so that our society could be awash with sleaze in every shape and size, whether promiscuity, polygamy, sodomy, pornography, paedohilia or other forms of sexual depravity.

    And as they were fighting against Muslim Turks, they certainly would not have believed that they were shedding their blood so that the nations they came from, and their Judeo-Christian heritage, could be taken over by sharia law and those seeking to establish a universal caliphate.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Dear Marty,

    Thank you for your comment about your son. I clearly see the concern and understand in part the pain you have raised in your letter. Bill answers your concerns well. I’ll add a few comments.

    As a Bible believing Christian I do not hate homosexuals or your son. Rest assured that Jesus Christ loves your son deeply and seeks his redemption as He seeks redemption of every homosexual, lesbian and every heterosexual. Despite what the liberals within the Christian faith may tell you homosexuality is NOT God’s creation and plan. The God of the Bible certainly does not create homosexuals so he can gleefully send them to hell, but His warning against homosexuals and lesbians is unmistakable.

    Reading 1 Corinthians 6 v 9-10 and Hebrews 10 v 26-27 is important for all Christians, non Christians and homosexuals, including myself.

    The Corinthian passage states ”Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

    The well respected J Packer states about this verse “I do not want to believe this but I dare not disbelieve it.”

    As a true Christian I cannot cut verses out of my Bible because I don’t like them. Anthony Venn-Brown, the Sydney based self proclaimed spiritual leader of gays has written comments recently on the net stating that God will not send homosexuals to hell. My Bible tells me he is lying.

    Who is ultimately driving and promoting homosexuality?

    I believe it is Satan. Satan’s agenda is to pervert, twist and spoil God’s creation and His institutions. We see that happening with marriage. There is and will continue to be incredible relentless pressure to enforce SSM in Australia. Satan will rejoice if this happens because God’s wonderful and beautiful institution “marriage” will be soiled and degraded across the Nation.

    Bill has detailed in previous articles and debates, the problems that will result if SSM is approved. In short, it will have significant negative and ugly implications across several societal levels and Organisations within Australia. See Paul’s comments above. His comments give a taste of what could happen. e.g. Acts of flagrant indecency in public places including possibly public transport, being ignored by Australian Police. Why are homosexuals being treated totally differently to heterosexuals? What does this decadent behaviour do to community standards?

    This is why I get righteously very angry with the homosexual movement because of the significant moral and spiritual damage they are prepared to inflict upon our community and this great Nation for their own selfish reasons. Of course, the homosexual lobby in all it’s guises including the Australian Marriage Equality Association deny the obvious implications of SSM. Now, this comes back to Jim Wallace’s ACL retracted SSM statement.

    Either Jim believes what He says when he made the statement or he doesn’t. If Jim retracts his statement then the questions are:- (1) Does he really believe it and (2) What value is he adding as the CEO of the Australian Christian Lobby and as a “so called” representative of Christians in Australia? Why does he so easily crumple when it gets a bit personal? Will all Christians now be seen as spineless wimps when it comes to defending marriage?

    NOW for the GOOD NEWS Marty
    HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT INESCAPABLE. FACT. It is NOT a predetermined life sentence that is un-redeemable.
    I suggest you and others read the following two testimonies from two exGays carefully.

    www.christianityandhomosexuality.com/

    www.drpipim.org/homosexuality-contemporaryissues-47/68-testimony-from-an-ex-gay.html

    They provide clear factual evidence that prove that homosexuality can be escaped from through and I believe only through Jesus Christ. Homosexuality can be overcome through the power of God. Don’t listen to those “do gooder liberals” who say your son was born a homosexual and God made him that way. They are no being truthful or helpful. They have no understanding of the Power and Love of God. The key truth is THEY DON’T LOVE YOUR SON because they don’t care about his eternity destiny. True Christians do truly care and are motivated by love. We understand first the need for redemption in our own lives. We know we are sinners. Refer the apostle Paul’s comments about his struggle with his sinful nature. That is why a minority of Christians including Bill Muehlenberg are prepared to tell the truth and also to be labelled as homophobes, bigots and haters, by the World and also by fellow Christians.

    Bill – I sincerely appreciate your work and your courage. There are few Christians that really are prepared to tackle these issues. Most stay quiet. The forces pushing for Gay Marriage are significant.

    God’s blessings to you and your family

    Philip Browne

  • Thanks Philip

    A very well written and well argued comment, as are many above, including that of Mark Rabich.

    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Thanks Bill.
    I have been out of circulation for the last five weeks because I have just moved house, and it is more an upheaval the older one gets!
    As to the statement by Jim Wallace I support his original comment, but he was clearly forced to retract due to pressure from the anti-free-speech brigade (and I will not recoil from calling them that). However, it raises the issue of the Gallipoli campaign, and just why our men were fighting.
    At the end of 1914 the “war of movement” on the Western front had reached a stalemate, while Russia had suffered major disasters in the East, and Winston Churchill conceived the idea of opening a passage to Russia via the Dardanelles and the Black Sea, to help Russia’s war effort. However, Turkey had entered the war on the side of the Central Powers, and blocked any such passage. Churchill believed that by assisting Russia the Allied powers could forestall any revolution, since it was well known that Russia was a cauldron of revolution, and had been for nearly a century. Even Queen Victoria while she was alive called Russia’s monarchy “a very unsafe throne”.
    Meanwhile, the Ottoman Empire had been crumbling for more than two centuries. This oppressive, backward, brutal, and barbaric Muslim regime was long past its heyday, and European powers were anxious for its ultimate demise.
    The key to Allied intentions was the capture of Constantinople, something even Russian military designs had aimed at since the days of Catherine the Great. Churchill’s order was clear: “Take Constantinople, and help Russia!” I actually heard Churchill in a documentary many years ago describe his aim in precisely this manner, i.e. to open up a supply line which could prevent revolutionary movements coming to power in Russia.
    However, while the campaign was, I believe, well conceived, the exection was one horrible botch, by incompetent generals (not including the Australian General Birdwood) – esp. Hamilton (who was on his flagship listening to classical music on his phonograph while our men were being shot up on the shores), who let one opportunity after another slip by.
    So why were our men fighting?
    1. To bring down an ailing Muslim regime and end the rule of the Mediterranean by the Turkish Sultan.
    2. To aid Russia, a loyal ally, and forestall revolution by totalitarian agencies.
    3. On the German front, to destroy the very nasty phenomenon of Prussian militarism which had overtaken Germany in the latter half of the previous century, the legacy of the great – and feared – C19th Chancellor Otto “blood and iron” von Bismarck.
    Fighting for freedom? You betcha!
    Murray R Adamthwaite

  • Thanks for that Murray.
    Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

  • Bill, your article released nuclear fission.
    When I saw Adolph Hitler paralyse the German nation with his national socialism, dupe the state church, assume control of Europe with brutal atrocities, I left a banking career for the 2/9 Australian general Hospital, serving in the Middle East and served at the foot of Kokoda Trail. We did so for a dear nation, not for 2% of homosexuals.

    If Rommel had conquered Montgomery at Tobruk, Hitler would have engulfed North Africa, India, south east Asia, Indonesia, and our beloved nation. Men died. God triumphed. In the massacre of the Coral Sea battle, Australia was ceded to the Japanese nation, a shinto nation. Mercy! it proved the first naval reverse and Kokoda the first land defeat for the Japanese.
    ‘When a nation forgets God” by Erwin Lutzer, Moody. He recorded 7 streams of truth that engulfed Germany, comparing with similar streams flowing in his USA.
    Bill, the same streams of pollution vaunt themselves in our beloved nation. They stink to high heaven.
    May God saturate our homes, precious children, professions and bible-teaching churches.
    Harrold Steward

  • Dear Bill, Thank you for the article. As far as I am concerned it is good to set aside one day of the year to publicly remember all those who died for their country in war but I suspect that most Australians commemorating the day ignore them for the rest of the year. As an act of charity the dead should be remembered and prayed for EVERY DAY.

    As for the homosexuals who have responded to your comments I would like to remind them that soldiers fought for the values predominant in their day which were undisputedly Christian not secular. They would have known what the Bible said about homosexuality and would not have accepted the idea of homosexual ‘marriages.’ Marriage to them would have been between a man and a woman – no argument! Open acceptance of unnatural practices were unheard of. Notice I said ‘practices’ not people. Consequently, If homosexuals did not flaunt their sexuality as they do now so brazenly it was only the bigoted and judgemental who persecuted them. After all why should they flaunt it? Heterosexuals don’t go around boasting that they are heterosexual.
    Patricia Halligan

  • Hello Marty

    www.mcc777.com.au/page11.php?view=productPage&product=23&category=2

    Please, I implore you to check out the above link. This DVD is phenomenal and I believe will help both you and your son.

    May God bless you both.

    Mario Del Giudice

  • Patricia makes a good point: “soldiers fought for the values predominant in their day”. And not only would homosexual ‘marriage’ have been unthinkable in earlier times, but remember too that homosexual acts were criminalised! Now it’s fast becoming a criminal offense to even say that homosexuality is immoral.

    Ewan McDonald, VIC

  • “And I await to see you protesting when your buddies launch their secularist jihads against Christians on some “sacred day”. But I won’t be holding my breath.”

    Speaking of which, did you see this? www.christiannewswire.com/news/6154416812.html

    Kylie Anderson

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