If anything is absolutely crystal clear by now, it is this: those who scream the most about diversity, acceptance and tolerance are the most intolerant folks around. The secular left in general and the militant homosexual lobby in particular are obvious and blatant examples of this.
They are not in the least bit interested in allowing actual debate and discussion to take place about any of their sacrosanct agenda items. We either agree fully with what they are pushing, or we must sit down and shut up. There is no middle ground here.
We saw another prime example of this when a brief video on homosexual marriage was put out by the Bible Society of Australia in conjunction with Coopers Brewery. A very civil debate featuring two Liberals (one a homosexual in favour of it, one a heterosexual against it) was a light-hearted and friendly bit of discussion about this key issue.
But the homosexual lobby – as always – went absolutely ballistic, bombarding Coopers with abuse and hate mail, demanding that they repent immediately and totally withdraw from the entire event. And sure enough, the cowards at Coopers did just that, putting out a slobbering act of confession and contrition, reminiscent of the early Communist show trials.
They not only renounced the entire project, including a commemoration of 200 years of the BSA, but they said they will now do even much more to push the homosexual agenda. So the boot licking is complete, as they have realised how evil they were to actually encourage civil debate. This 90 second video features Tim and Melanie Cooper with their complete and total capitulation to the homosexual bullies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4VreNdBcxg&feature=youtu.be
Some sensible voices have spoken to this case of yet more homosexual bullying and intimidation. Miranda Devine, commenting on the marriage discussion, said this:
The two men finish by companionably chinking bottles of beer, and wishing the Bible Society, which produced the video, a happy 200th birthday. That’s it. No religious intolerance. No homophobia. No hate speech. Each man put forward his argument logically and in such a way that any reasonable person might think twice about their own position.
Surely that’s how social change is won, by talking through issues, finding common ground, testing your own beliefs, listening to opponents, not with a vicious illiberal take-down of anyone who dares hold a contrary view. But the Oberfuhrers of the rainbow community have whipped themselves up into such an insane fury, they discredit their own advocacy for same sex marriage….
The comments on Facebook are priceless. Someone named Hayley asks why bottles of Coopers are being smashed. Someone named Kylie replies: “They make donations to that homophobic church or something.” That’s enough for Hayley to join the take-down: “ah for f*ck sake. OK I won’t stand for that. Out they go.”
Forget redefining marriage. Here we have “hate” redefined as a civilised discussion between friends. If that’s hate, we need more of it. Thus are displayed the fascist proclivities of identity activists of the Left. Shut up if you don’t agree. Go out of business. Curl up and die. So if you’re for truly open and honest debate, commit a “hate” crime for freedom tomorrow and crack open a bottle of Coopers Premium Light.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendezview/miranda-devine-drinking-coopers-supporting-hate-oh-come-on/news-story/a0b6099a20fd17792b84c6f2202c593e
Liberal Senator Eric Abetz said this:
The bizarre reaction to the video, including a boycott of Coopers Brewery because my parliamentary colleagues happened to be drinking their beer in the video, is just the latest demonstration that the political correctness brigade is out of control.
While I am disappointed Coopers pathetically backed down in their support for the Bible Society and immediately paid go-away money and joined Australians for Marriage Equality, there are clearly bigger issues at play here — this dogmatic approach from the left of Australian politics who feel that they can shout down and destroy anyone with whom they disagree.
The fact that an intolerant and outspoken minority continue to bully and harass hardworking and decent people and businesses is concerning. While of course these left-wing social justice warriors are entitled to free speech people shouldn’t be afraid of calling out their hypocrisy and demanding a more civil and respectful discourse.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/companies/coopers-loses-bottle-after-bible-society-row/news-story/f459c5d3dc0cd5069e6dbf94e5d549a1
And commentator Akos Balogh said this in part:
2. The Public Square is not ‘neutral’ or ‘secular’. Rather, it’s a ‘battleground of gods’.
As we see the fallout this video has caused in the public square, we need to come to terms with an important issue: the public square is not ‘neutral’, or even ‘secular’. There is no ‘neutral’ public square, because there are no religiously ‘neutral’ people. We’re all worshippers – whether we belong (in the words of Augustine) to the community of the ‘heavenly city’ that worships God, or whether we belong to the community of the ‘earthly city’, which worships idols.
Thus the public square is a ‘battleground of gods’, as Christian scholar Jonathan Leeman puts it, ‘each vying to push the levers of power in its favour.’
And what we’re seeing over the video backlash is the ‘god’ of the sexual revolution flexing its muscles and dominating more and more of the public square, to the exclusion of all other ‘gods’:
3. The ‘gods’ of the sexual revolution want to dominate the public square, and punish any dissent.
Whilst the Christian God has been the dominant player in the Western public square, He has been challenged over the last 50 years, and even more so in the last decade. The sexual revolution is the new ‘god on the block’, and it’s followers have no time for the Christian God, or any of His views on sexuality.
https://australia.thegospelcoalition.org/article/would-the-beer-drinking-christians-just-shut-up
But what about the BSA?
This entire episode is not just about the cowardly capitulation by Coopers to the homosexual thugs. What about the Bible Society of Australia? Sadly they too have capitulated. They have very quickly pulled the “offending” video, and simply said this where it once was: “We have decided to remove this video. Thank you for your understanding.”
https://vimeo.com/207564550
Um, no, I don’t understand. Why did you pull it? Pulling it without a word of explanation was bad enough, but things got much worse real quick. In a television interview, the CEO of BSA, Dr Greg Clarke was asked this question: “The Bible Society does believe in one particular side of this debate, don’t you?”
Clarke replied: “We don’t have a position no, we are a charity. We work with all the churches. Churches have their own positions, they can be different, and that’s the case on all sorts of issues, not just sexuality, but things to do with refugees, with poverty relief…”
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/liberal-mps-in-marriage-equality-debate-sponsored-by-coopers-beer-bible-society-20170310-guvtsd.html
What? A Bible Society that refuses to take a stance of the biblical view of marriage? Really?! One might as well say that the BSA should have no view on sin, or salvation, or Christ either. One expects a pagan brewer to deny principles and run on expediency and cowardice, but we expect a bit better from a Bible Society.
Of interest, I had someone who works for the BSA actually ask me about all this, and where she could find a copy of the pulled video. I said that the BSA seemed to be as cowardly as Coopers. The gal said she was ashamed of the actions of the BSA. I said they were acting like spineless wonders.
She replied, ‘We have to remain impartial.’ I replied: Impartial about what God says about marriage – um, which Bible is being read here!? She said that in her personal capacity she holds the same views as I do on homosexuality and same sex marriage, but she cannot stress that point from a Bible Society perspective.
She went on to say that her job is at stake here. I replied by saying I would pray for wisdom for her, but I also said this: why have I heard similar things in the past, say, by German Christians in the 30s? ‘But my job is at stake so I cannot speak out.’ Sometimes speaking out is far more important than holding a job.
Sure, it is real tough when you have a family to support, and it may be easy to talk about putting Christian principles first over job security. But I really do believe God is calling us to start being courageous and faith-filled Christians in an increasingly hostile world.
Simply staying true to our biblical convictions will mean that more and more of us will be losing our jobs and facing other very real negative consequences. So who do we really trust here? God, or some employer? We need to start getting real about just what it means to be a true disciple of Christ.
As Melbourne pastor Murray Campbell said about this:
I’ve had Christian friends suggest to me today, if only the Bible Society had stayed away from same-sex marriage, as though that would keep everybody happy. Respectfully, do we not realise that that is in itself a concession, and is simply buying into the rhetoric of those who wish to outlaw dissenting speech and belief from society?
In some formal sense, free speech will exist tomorrow morning, but in practice, a cacophonous minority have succeeded in shouting down reasoned and respectful speech. I remember one year ago referring to freedom of speech as the gordian knot of our time; well, today the sword has been taken out of its sheath and cut right through the ropes.
Free speech is gone and what we have left is costly speech. To speak truth will cost. To suggest an alternative narrative, will have you branded as bigot, and more.
Again understand, this is not about what is right and fair, or about what is reasonable and respectful, it is about conforming to the program of what Stephen McAlpine has termed, the sexual fundamentalists….
What I am praying is that sleepy Christians will wake up, alert Christians will be humble, and compromising Christians will repent. “Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.” (Revelation 3:2-3)
Christians in this country have too often and wrongly believed that we can have our Christianity and it won’t cost us anything. Sure, we recite those verses that talk about talking up our cross, and we nod in agreement, but our lives betray this flimsy assent to Jesus. We have believed the prophets of our time who calmly reassure us that there is peace, when in fact there is no peace. We work and play and make love, and believe the world is ok. We have turned to our false prophets who keep scratching where we itch and assuring us that all is well. But the phoney war has ended, and too many of us have been caught unprepared. We love our hedonistic lifestyle, and I fear many will be unable to let it go in order to follow Christ into this new Australia.
https://murraycampbell.net/2017/03/13/the-phoney-war-is-over/
What a sorry saga this entire affair has been. We see more homosexual fascism in action; we see more companies bending over backwards to appease the thugs; we see Christian groups backtracking at the slightest hint of opposition and controversy; and we see believers now being forced to ask some hard questions about what it really means to be a Christ-follower in today’s dark times.
From what I understand, Bible Society Australia didn’t ask permission to use the beer in the video and that’s why Cooper’s Brewery pulled the plug on the beer. Dr Greg Clarke admitted they didn’t seek sponsorship from Coopers to use the beer in the video. See 3:34 on this video:
Thanks Anne. There are reasons and there are reasons of course! I think most folks would rightly suspect that the main reason both groups capitulated was because of the ferocious homosexual intimidation. The rainbow jackboot causes many to retreat and surrender.
I can only hope more and more people fully realise how serious this episode is in what it reveals. Even a fair debate is too much for the other side! They completely ignore that there was a guy sitting in that video holding a beer who believes what they do and had an equal chance to speak.
No! We must be the only ones to speak!
Wow. So much for ‘equality’.
Quite so Mark.
We’ve been looking forward to reading your insightful analysis of this unfortunate saga, Bill, and its ramifications for Christians and society. Thank you very much for your thorough presentation of our society’s slippery slope. To prayer . . !!
Hi Bill, I haven’t seen the Coopers Brewery clip, however, it has received a lot of press and radio talk back. What is more frightening than the rampant homosexual thuggery we’re now seeing, it’s the all out assault on free speech and constructive debate. The overt persecution against Christianity that we’ve been seeing in Australia is now turning into all out war against our faith and Bible based beliefs. I’m not absolutely sure, but I believe it was Churchill who once said, and I quote; “the first casualty of war is the truth”. Bill, the situation is not going to get any better. As Christians we have to be well grounded in our Scripture, and have to use wisdom in the fights that we take on for our faith. Bill, it was a big but timely article that you’ve compiled and most appreciated for the times we’re living in. Kind regards, Kel.
Dark times? Nay but they are on their way. As I understand it, the greatest plague in all history is on a collision course with mankind in a global catastrophe that will punish us for generations to come.
And God said: if you do not my bidding, I will turn my face from you. In other words, you are on your own.
We have insulted God and even put him on trial by accepting divorce of the marriage he put together and allowed a human hand to divide that which he put together;
We have blasphemed his name by accepting adultery in accepting divorce and remarriage;
We have accepted the murder of unborn children by way of abortion and called it women’s rights;
We have accepted the act of homosexuality and called it “gay rights”.
Our creator may be regretting our anguish to come but is there another way? I doubt it!
John Abbott
Lyle Shelton (ACL) has observed lately, “If the Bible Society ever again dips its toe into the marriage debate, it won’t be the third-party product placement the political activists go after. It will be the Bible.”
Brilliant observation. Thanks for this. I needed to be reminded of this.
Pathetic. Churches should pull funding from a Bible Society that won’t defend the Bible, and never drink Coopers. Betrayers should not be rewarded for capitulating to what the late Bill Leak called the Waffen SSM.
The ancient myth of Aphrodite’s jealousy against Psyche includes Eros in the love/hatred triangle. Eros seduces Psyche.
A fervent “religious” pursuit of erotic passions constitutes the sacred dogma of 21st-Century disciples of Eros and Dionysus. The arrows and potions of Cupid were renowned for their potent effects on the reason of his victims. The voices of Reason and Conscience are bound to be drowned in a Bacchic orgy of self-righteous protest.
Nietzsche knew the essence of our present spiritual conflict: For him it is – “Dionysus versus the Crucified” [Ecce Homo9].
Thanks Samuel Enderby. I was wondering what Lyle Shelton’s response was to the situation. Good point Mark Rabich.
I so wish Coopers had stood firm and just said “Get over it” to the bullies. They would have garnered so much more respect and possibly sales.
Rev 12:11 Our brothers conquered him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they did not cling to their lives even in the face of death. (ISV)
Remember the brand of beer “Courage”? Not much of that at Coopers. Or the Bible Society of Australia. Mary Jones, don’t weep. The book of the Prophet Daniel says many shall fall to refine them. I am very grateful to Bill for this article, it confirms (sadly) what I have felt in my gut for years. The BSA is not full on about what the BIBLE is on about! The comments above are all encouraging they are from the 7000 the Lord has kept for Himself. Once more unto this breach dear friends! And PRAISE THE LORD!!!
And now the next level of trouble; various big business heads pressuring the PM on SSM:
Hi there, thank you for the post. I agree with everything you have said. Completely agree. The Bible is very clear. I say that as a same sex attracted Christian who chose to get married and have children and who has chosen to not follow my same sex feelings, after all we don’t have to be lead by feelings.
I do have one question for you, and would love it if you would declare it as strongly as that written above. It would seem clear to me that the Bible just as strongly condemns adultery as it does homosexuality. Jesus said he who divorces commits adultery and forces the other person to do so also. The Bible also says that the adulterer will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, in the same verse as it says the homosexual, gossiper, etc. You see there are so many Christians today who decide to divorce their partners because they don’t love them any more, they don’t get on, etc. In fact my husband chose to commit adultery overseas and bring a Filipino women back to Australia. He now attends another church with his new partner, who he is not married to, and calls it Christianity.
You will not get any arguments from me about the Biblical perspective on Marriage. It is clearly between a man and a woman. The choices I have made in my life is based on this truth, a revelation that can not be shaken in me. However, in my view, the Bible is just as clear about divorce and adultery and I can’t help but struggle with the double standard in the church when it comes to this. My question is this, why does the Bible seem so clear to the church around homosexuality but not so clear with divorce, which Jesus says leads to adultery. Why do I have to remain celebrant as a same sex attracted Christian and divorced people feel free to marry?
I’m still not arguing for same sex marriage. I have a personal revelation that cannot be shaken, however, I think I make a fair point and I would like to see the same stance on that.
Thanks Irene. There is no question that much of the church has lost the plot and capitulated too easily on divorce and related issues.
Paul Murray on Sky news said he is in favour of Same sex marriage but not of shutting down discussion. He said it was a reasoned respectful discussion.
Katherine Fishley
Irene, you asked the question about homosexuality and adultery, Both are terrible sins, but I think God holds homosexuality as the greater sin because it is an affront to His creation of one man and one woman united in marriage for life for the procreation of children. There have only been two occasions when God completely destroyed a large group of people. The first was the world wide flood and I believe the reason was the sons of God (heavenly beings) married daughters of men and produced the Nephilim which was in direct conflict with God’s natural order. The other time was of course, Sodom and Gomorrah for the same reason.
I really appreciate your openness and I admire you for it.
Hi Bill, I was having my quiet time this morning, and also praying over this article. Whilst doing all this, one of Jesus’ timeless comments came to mind. And I quote; “I have told you these things so that you may have perfect peace and confidence. In this world you have tribulations and trials and distress and frustration : but be of good cheer [take courage: be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world. [I have deprived it of power to harm you and have conquered it for you.] John 16:33 AMP. I fully understand that I’ve taken this promise of Jesus out of context, however it has given me great comfort. Bill, the homosexual lobby have no idea who they’re ultimately dealing with, we do !! In the end it will be our Lord Jesus Christ who will emerge victorious. My focus is not on the homosexual lobby, they’re defeated in the end. I just want to spend time on my knees thanking and praising Jesus for what He has already done, and for what He has promised through Scripture to accomplish. Bill, please, keep these articles coming . Blessings, Kel.
I have been reading Jeremiah – up to Ch. 9 so far. Ancient Israel at that time seems very like today’s Western world in so many ways.
Hi Irene
I agree totally with what you said. Until the church takes a stance on all sexual sin and demonstrates the sacredness of marriage, Christians will continue to be seen as hypocrites. I think that we tend to pick on homosexuality because they lobby against the church and everything we stand for. It is more in the public eye now and also because of trying to redefine marriage. I have been married for 22 years and there are times I could have easily left but I made a lifetime commitment before God and my hubby and I will continue to work on that.
Come on Christians let’s show the world what marriage was intended to be.
In criticising BSA you are shooting the messager! In defence of BSA and having worked for them both in Australia and overseas I would say that they have survived as a ministry for 200 years because they have been led by discerning leaders who are able to concentrate on the main game. As individuals, these leaders who are almost certainly evangelical would have strong views on same sex marriage since it is the case in point but it would be counterproductive for them to take a corporate position. The Bible Society translates and distributes Bibles for may denominations and cultures. In Mongolia where I worked it was very difficult to find a suitable way to find a suitable word for God in the Mongolian language. The very young Christian church there was caught up in the debate.
Thanks John. Are you serious? It would be “counterproductive for them to take a corporate position” on marriage? Good grief. Marriage IS of course a “main game” for all Christians – indeed it is a gospel matter. For a Christian group to refuse to stand for biblical marriage when it is under ferocious attack tells us much about the Christian group. They might as well just rebrand themselves as a secular bookstore in this case – maybe just call themselves “Joe’s Bookshop”. What good is it to hide in cowardice as the most vital biblical issues of the day are being hammered, and wimp out at the slightest opposition? All we do then is let the other side win once again as they force us into silence and submission.
Sorry, but I have to fully stand with this quote attributed to Martin Luther: “If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christ. Where the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved, and to be steady on all the battle front besides is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that point.”
Sorry John but the BSA is shooting itself, and all you seem to be doing here is shooting me, the messenger!
Irene’s remarks about churches going soft on divorce and adultery are more closely related to the questions surrounding so-called “Marriage Equality” than people might suspect: It is not uncommon these days for a divorcee to enter into a same-sex relationship. Moreover, sometimes, offspring of divorced parents gravitate towards same-sex relationships in the aftermath of their parents’ breakup. The notion of same-sex marriage is itself founded on an a priori divorce of mankind from womankind when it comes to nuptial intimacy and joint parenthood.
I am really impressed by the quality and tone of this discussion! No mudslinging here. Christians? What does it mean today? A club where a group of people exist to defend and live out their own religion? Irene is right – no one WILL enter the Kingdom of God that has not been born again by the Spirit of God and many examples are listed to emphasize the non-negotiability of these issues. Where are the real church, the children of God. May God continue to reveal His Grace to ALL people until the very last day.
Irene Clay, I don’t believe you do need to remain celibate if you husband has committed adultery. I found this and thought it might shed some light on the matter, but you can read the whole paper here: http://www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=318
‘…2. Matthew 19:9. “And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for
unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery.” The Lord succinctly enjoins
that whoever divorces his wife for any other reason than illicit sexual intercourse
and marries another, commits adultery. If we compare what Jesus teaches in this
passage with what He says in Matt. 5:32 we are able to add the following to the
whole of what He teaches. Not only is the act of divorce itself sinful, apart from
remarriage, but the act of remarriage after an illegitimate divorce is judged
contrary to the will of God. Moreover, Jesus focuses on what the husband’s act
means for him: he becomes an adulterer….’
I just noticed the audio is still here, it’s only the visual part of the video that has been removed.
I rang that paragon of tolerance ADAM BANDTs office and suggested he read the transcript of the debate before carrying on like a totalitarian utopian.
Thanks Bill. I had heard the owner of Coopers is a Christian- can’t recall where I heard it.
Thanks Bill. Yes he claims to be, although this appalling act of cowardice, capitulation and compromise tells us a fair amount about his brand of Christianity I am afraid.
Hi Bill
After working with people in alcohol and drug addiction for the last 15 years, and the huge problem it is today in our society why would the Bible society ever consider getting into bed with Coopers?
From what I understand, Bible Society Australia didn’t ask permission to use the beer in the video and that’s why Cooper’s Brewery pulled the plug on the beer. Dr Greg Clarke admitted they didn’t seek sponsorship from Coopers to use the beer in the video. See 3:34 on this video:
Thanks Anne. There are reasons and there are reasons of course! I think most folks would rightly suspect that the main reason both groups capitulated was because of the ferocious homosexual intimidation. The rainbow jackboot causes many to retreat and surrender.
I can only hope more and more people fully realise how serious this episode is in what it reveals. Even a fair debate is too much for the other side! They completely ignore that there was a guy sitting in that video holding a beer who believes what they do and had an equal chance to speak.
No! We must be the only ones to speak!
Wow. So much for ‘equality’.
Quite so Mark.
We’ve been looking forward to reading your insightful analysis of this unfortunate saga, Bill, and its ramifications for Christians and society. Thank you very much for your thorough presentation of our society’s slippery slope. To prayer . . !!
Hi Bill, I haven’t seen the Coopers Brewery clip, however, it has received a lot of press and radio talk back. What is more frightening than the rampant homosexual thuggery we’re now seeing, it’s the all out assault on free speech and constructive debate. The overt persecution against Christianity that we’ve been seeing in Australia is now turning into all out war against our faith and Bible based beliefs. I’m not absolutely sure, but I believe it was Churchill who once said, and I quote; “the first casualty of war is the truth”. Bill, the situation is not going to get any better. As Christians we have to be well grounded in our Scripture, and have to use wisdom in the fights that we take on for our faith. Bill, it was a big but timely article that you’ve compiled and most appreciated for the times we’re living in. Kind regards, Kel.
Dark times? Nay but they are on their way. As I understand it, the greatest plague in all history is on a collision course with mankind in a global catastrophe that will punish us for generations to come.
And God said: if you do not my bidding, I will turn my face from you. In other words, you are on your own.
We have insulted God and even put him on trial by accepting divorce of the marriage he put together and allowed a human hand to divide that which he put together;
We have blasphemed his name by accepting adultery in accepting divorce and remarriage;
We have accepted the murder of unborn children by way of abortion and called it women’s rights;
We have accepted the act of homosexuality and called it “gay rights”.
Our creator may be regretting our anguish to come but is there another way? I doubt it!
John Abbott
Lyle Shelton (ACL) has observed lately, “If the Bible Society ever again dips its toe into the marriage debate, it won’t be the third-party product placement the political activists go after. It will be the Bible.”
Brilliant observation. Thanks for this. I needed to be reminded of this.
Pathetic. Churches should pull funding from a Bible Society that won’t defend the Bible, and never drink Coopers. Betrayers should not be rewarded for capitulating to what the late Bill Leak called the Waffen SSM.
The ancient myth of Aphrodite’s jealousy against Psyche includes Eros in the love/hatred triangle. Eros seduces Psyche.
A fervent “religious” pursuit of erotic passions constitutes the sacred dogma of 21st-Century disciples of Eros and Dionysus. The arrows and potions of Cupid were renowned for their potent effects on the reason of his victims. The voices of Reason and Conscience are bound to be drowned in a Bacchic orgy of self-righteous protest.
Nietzsche knew the essence of our present spiritual conflict: For him it is – “Dionysus versus the Crucified” [Ecce Homo9].
Thanks Samuel Enderby. I was wondering what Lyle Shelton’s response was to the situation. Good point Mark Rabich.
I so wish Coopers had stood firm and just said “Get over it” to the bullies. They would have garnered so much more respect and possibly sales.
Rev 12:11 Our brothers conquered him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they did not cling to their lives even in the face of death. (ISV)
Remember the brand of beer “Courage”? Not much of that at Coopers. Or the Bible Society of Australia. Mary Jones, don’t weep. The book of the Prophet Daniel says many shall fall to refine them. I am very grateful to Bill for this article, it confirms (sadly) what I have felt in my gut for years. The BSA is not full on about what the BIBLE is on about! The comments above are all encouraging they are from the 7000 the Lord has kept for Himself. Once more unto this breach dear friends! And PRAISE THE LORD!!!
And now the next level of trouble; various big business heads pressuring the PM on SSM:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/sparks-fly-as-chiefs-tell-turnbull-marriage-equality-good-for-business/news-story/cc843643440604ee5b794cf5f49c7493
Hi there, thank you for the post. I agree with everything you have said. Completely agree. The Bible is very clear. I say that as a same sex attracted Christian who chose to get married and have children and who has chosen to not follow my same sex feelings, after all we don’t have to be lead by feelings.
I do have one question for you, and would love it if you would declare it as strongly as that written above. It would seem clear to me that the Bible just as strongly condemns adultery as it does homosexuality. Jesus said he who divorces commits adultery and forces the other person to do so also. The Bible also says that the adulterer will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, in the same verse as it says the homosexual, gossiper, etc. You see there are so many Christians today who decide to divorce their partners because they don’t love them any more, they don’t get on, etc. In fact my husband chose to commit adultery overseas and bring a Filipino women back to Australia. He now attends another church with his new partner, who he is not married to, and calls it Christianity.
You will not get any arguments from me about the Biblical perspective on Marriage. It is clearly between a man and a woman. The choices I have made in my life is based on this truth, a revelation that can not be shaken in me. However, in my view, the Bible is just as clear about divorce and adultery and I can’t help but struggle with the double standard in the church when it comes to this. My question is this, why does the Bible seem so clear to the church around homosexuality but not so clear with divorce, which Jesus says leads to adultery. Why do I have to remain celebrant as a same sex attracted Christian and divorced people feel free to marry?
I’m still not arguing for same sex marriage. I have a personal revelation that cannot be shaken, however, I think I make a fair point and I would like to see the same stance on that.
Thanks Irene. There is no question that much of the church has lost the plot and capitulated too easily on divorce and related issues.
Paul Murray on Sky news said he is in favour of Same sex marriage but not of shutting down discussion. He said it was a reasoned respectful discussion.
Katherine Fishley
To add to what I wrote, they are also trying to ‘persuade’ other businesses to join in:
http://www.acl.org.au/first_coopers_now_this
Irene, you asked the question about homosexuality and adultery, Both are terrible sins, but I think God holds homosexuality as the greater sin because it is an affront to His creation of one man and one woman united in marriage for life for the procreation of children. There have only been two occasions when God completely destroyed a large group of people. The first was the world wide flood and I believe the reason was the sons of God (heavenly beings) married daughters of men and produced the Nephilim which was in direct conflict with God’s natural order. The other time was of course, Sodom and Gomorrah for the same reason.
I really appreciate your openness and I admire you for it.
Hi Bill, I was having my quiet time this morning, and also praying over this article. Whilst doing all this, one of Jesus’ timeless comments came to mind. And I quote; “I have told you these things so that you may have perfect peace and confidence. In this world you have tribulations and trials and distress and frustration : but be of good cheer [take courage: be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world. [I have deprived it of power to harm you and have conquered it for you.] John 16:33 AMP. I fully understand that I’ve taken this promise of Jesus out of context, however it has given me great comfort. Bill, the homosexual lobby have no idea who they’re ultimately dealing with, we do !! In the end it will be our Lord Jesus Christ who will emerge victorious. My focus is not on the homosexual lobby, they’re defeated in the end. I just want to spend time on my knees thanking and praising Jesus for what He has already done, and for what He has promised through Scripture to accomplish. Bill, please, keep these articles coming . Blessings, Kel.
I have been reading Jeremiah – up to Ch. 9 so far. Ancient Israel at that time seems very like today’s Western world in so many ways.
Hi Irene
I agree totally with what you said. Until the church takes a stance on all sexual sin and demonstrates the sacredness of marriage, Christians will continue to be seen as hypocrites. I think that we tend to pick on homosexuality because they lobby against the church and everything we stand for. It is more in the public eye now and also because of trying to redefine marriage. I have been married for 22 years and there are times I could have easily left but I made a lifetime commitment before God and my hubby and I will continue to work on that.
Come on Christians let’s show the world what marriage was intended to be.
In criticising BSA you are shooting the messager! In defence of BSA and having worked for them both in Australia and overseas I would say that they have survived as a ministry for 200 years because they have been led by discerning leaders who are able to concentrate on the main game. As individuals, these leaders who are almost certainly evangelical would have strong views on same sex marriage since it is the case in point but it would be counterproductive for them to take a corporate position. The Bible Society translates and distributes Bibles for may denominations and cultures. In Mongolia where I worked it was very difficult to find a suitable way to find a suitable word for God in the Mongolian language. The very young Christian church there was caught up in the debate.
Thanks John. Are you serious? It would be “counterproductive for them to take a corporate position” on marriage? Good grief. Marriage IS of course a “main game” for all Christians – indeed it is a gospel matter. For a Christian group to refuse to stand for biblical marriage when it is under ferocious attack tells us much about the Christian group. They might as well just rebrand themselves as a secular bookstore in this case – maybe just call themselves “Joe’s Bookshop”. What good is it to hide in cowardice as the most vital biblical issues of the day are being hammered, and wimp out at the slightest opposition? All we do then is let the other side win once again as they force us into silence and submission.
Sorry, but I have to fully stand with this quote attributed to Martin Luther: “If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christ. Where the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved, and to be steady on all the battle front besides is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that point.”
Sorry John but the BSA is shooting itself, and all you seem to be doing here is shooting me, the messenger!
Irene’s remarks about churches going soft on divorce and adultery are more closely related to the questions surrounding so-called “Marriage Equality” than people might suspect: It is not uncommon these days for a divorcee to enter into a same-sex relationship. Moreover, sometimes, offspring of divorced parents gravitate towards same-sex relationships in the aftermath of their parents’ breakup. The notion of same-sex marriage is itself founded on an a priori divorce of mankind from womankind when it comes to nuptial intimacy and joint parenthood.
I am really impressed by the quality and tone of this discussion! No mudslinging here. Christians? What does it mean today? A club where a group of people exist to defend and live out their own religion? Irene is right – no one WILL enter the Kingdom of God that has not been born again by the Spirit of God and many examples are listed to emphasize the non-negotiability of these issues. Where are the real church, the children of God. May God continue to reveal His Grace to ALL people until the very last day.
Irene Clay, I don’t believe you do need to remain celibate if you husband has committed adultery. I found this and thought it might shed some light on the matter, but you can read the whole paper here: http://www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=318
‘…2. Matthew 19:9. “And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for
unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery.” The Lord succinctly enjoins
that whoever divorces his wife for any other reason than illicit sexual intercourse
and marries another, commits adultery. If we compare what Jesus teaches in this
passage with what He says in Matt. 5:32 we are able to add the following to the
whole of what He teaches. Not only is the act of divorce itself sinful, apart from
remarriage, but the act of remarriage after an illegitimate divorce is judged
contrary to the will of God. Moreover, Jesus focuses on what the husband’s act
means for him: he becomes an adulterer….’
I just noticed the audio is still here, it’s only the visual part of the video that has been removed.
I rang that paragon of tolerance ADAM BANDTs office and suggested he read the transcript of the debate before carrying on like a totalitarian utopian.
I find websites like this sacrilegious! http://www.sbs.com.au/comedy/article/2017/03/14/8th-day-jesus-was-hungover-bible-passages-support-coopers
An interesting article on the topic! http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/coopers-backdown-is-weak-as-piss/news-story/b204efba3233a425d936e2201a4c21e1
Thanks Bill. I had heard the owner of Coopers is a Christian- can’t recall where I heard it.
Thanks Bill. Yes he claims to be, although this appalling act of cowardice, capitulation and compromise tells us a fair amount about his brand of Christianity I am afraid.
Background to Live Light video & Brechney’s “Boycott Coopers” petition… The Australian Financial Review says they came “hot on the heels of the family-owned brewery withdrawing its sponsorship of the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras.” Withdrawal by principle? Or withdrawal just to save $$$?
Besides demanding “come out in support of Marriage Equality,” Brechney’s petition also demanded: “make 3 generous donations to Australians for Equality” After their response, he commented beer-in-hand: “we need to reward bigots when they backflip otherwise there’s no incentive for any other bigots to backflip in the future.”
Currently, Brown-Forman (another alcohol industry sponsor of SG&L Mardi Gras) has not yet withdrawn its sponsorship $$$ from SG&L Mardi Gras. Do Brechney &co fear loosing their “generous donations” too? He served as director of the SG&L Mardi Gras board. 2SER Radio interviewed him and they describe how he had earlier started into DIY same-sex promotion: “it all started off as a bit of a joke and the great influence of wine.”
On a side note, please thank and encourage Peter Dutton for taking a stand against pro-SSM corporate heads:
http://www.peterdutton.com.au/Contact.aspx
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-18/qantas-continue-same-sex-marriage-support-peter-dutton-criticism/8366306
Hi Bill
After working with people in alcohol and drug addiction for the last 15 years, and the huge problem it is today in our society why would the Bible society ever consider getting into bed with Coopers?
Hi Bill.
Albert Mohler weighed in as well (see The Briefing 3-14-17)
http://www.albertmohler.com/ Mick Koster
Thanks Mick. Yes I listened to that.