Do you think the school system in a Muslim-majority nation would happily embrace booklets informing Muslim students how great Christianity is, or Judaism? Do you think any positive curriculum about non-Islamic faiths is found in Muslim-majority school systems? Somehow I just don’t think so.
Yet that is what our Western Islamophiles want done here. They want Western school kids taught all about how great Islam is, and how Australians are just a bunch of racists. Yes, you heard me right. Some eggheads think our school children must learn how to properly love Islam while they properly loathe Western culture.
Here is how one press report covers the story: “Every Australian school student would be taught positive aspects about Islam and Muslims – and that Australia is a racist country – under a proposal by an education think tank. The plan is outlined in the Learning From One Another: Bringing Muslim Perspectives into Australian Schools booklet, published during the week by the Australian Curriculum Studies Association and the University of Melbourne’s Centre for Excellence in Islamic Studies.
“It says there is a ‘degree of prejudice and ignorance about Islam and Muslims’, and Australian students must be taught to embrace difference and diversity. The booklet refers to the al-Qai’da of Osama bin Laden as ‘a famous name’ synonymous with the traditionalist movement in Islam. It makes no reference to terrorism.
“It says ‘most texts used in Australian English classes still have a Western or European perspective’. Its authors are offering free seminars to teachers, which promise to ‘provide avenues for you to introduce Islam- and Muslim-related content in your classrooms’ and ‘equip you with the skills to meet the needs and expectations of Muslim students in a multi-faith classroom’.”
There are of course all sorts of anomalies surrounding this story. As I mentioned, it is all one way traffic: you will never find similar things being proposed in Muslim nations. And what about those feisty secular humanists? They scream bloody murder if we ever seek to have Christian teaching in the schools. Will they also make a big stink about this?
And what sort of brainwashing are these eggheads proposing anyway? The 120-page document, which is available online, contains plenty of misinformation, Islamic propaganda, and outright deceptive content. The booklet is as notable for what it does not say as for what it does say. For example, it lists the five pillars of Islam – the main Islamic religious practices (pp. 87-91) – but it fails to tell us that many Muslims insist on a sixth pillar: jihad, or holy war.
There is a section on “Parental expectations and rebellion” (p. 68) which speaks of Muslim children rebelling against the religious beliefs of their parents. What it fails to tell us of course is how Islam demands the death penalty for apostasy. Any Muslim who chooses to leave Islam is viewed as a traitor who must be put to death.
The booklet speaks about Islamic achievements, such as the development of algebra. (p. 21). I have written about these supposed scientific accomplishments elsewhere, eg: https://billmuehlenberg.com/2010/07/06/islam-and-science/
Suffice it to say that although the term ‘algebra’ is an Arabic word, algebra itself goes back to the ancient Greeks, as well as to earlier Indian mathematicians. The booklet says this: “Muslim scholar Alkhwarezm is known as the founder of algebra. His work, from around 813–833, forms the basis of algebra today.” The booklet does not tell us about the Alexandrian Greek mathematician Diophantus from the third century who is referred to as “the father of algebra”.
The booklet also serves up a good dose of interfaith baloney, as it seeks to make Islam look like it is on a par with Christianity: “The God of the Muslims is the God of all, including Jews and Christians. The only difference lies in their understanding of God and His Actions” (p. 100).
That bit of religious deception I have also dealt with at length elsewhere, including here: https://billmuehlenberg.com/2007/08/19/no-we-do-not-worship-the-same-god/
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2007/08/16/what-to-make-of-allah/
Its take on terrorism and jihad is equally fallacious and laden with Islamist propaganda. It says this about the topic: “Islam only allows a just war, often in self-defence. Any offensive should be for the greater good” (p. 100). There is far too much disingenuous info to be properly covered here, but let me point out a few things.
Traditional just war theory has nothing in common with the Islamic understanding of holy war and the use of force. Also, readers should be aware that “self-defence” in Islam means something far different than what we take it to mean. And it of course does not explain to us what the “greater good” entails in offensive wars.
This topic I have also written up. See these pieces for example:
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2008/11/21/jesus-muhammad-and-violence/
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2004/11/25/a-closer-look-at-religion-and-violence/
And consider this howler: “In Islam, men and women are equal before God.” This topic I also cover in some detail:
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2006/11/02/islam-and-women/
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2008/02/22/islam-and-women-2/
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2009/10/05/islam-and-polygamy/
Andrew Bolt has also checked out this booklet, so let me draw upon some of his remarks: “How impudent for a largely immigrant community, comprising a very small minority, to demand English classes now be taught more from their perspective rather than the communal perspective of the country to which most chose to come – a communal perspective that reflects the values and institutions that have made this country worth coming to in the first place. It is particularly offensive in that the host nation is demonised as racist while the very real and in some cases lethal challenges posed by the newcomers are glossed over.
“This National Centre of Excellence for Islamic Studies document is the well-meaning – but dangerously foolish and deceptive – work of Dr Eeqbal Hassim, a former research fellow in Islamic Law at the University of Melbourne, and Jennet Cole-Adams, director of Curriculum Services at the Australian Curriculum Studies Association.
“Most tellingly, it has only passing and vague references to Islamic terrorism, which is the key explanation for Australia’s alleged ‘racism’ towards Muslims – something that might in many case might be more properly described as a natural caution, and one limited to Muslims here than to Buddhists or any other largely immigrant group that seems curiously immune to our ‘racism’.”
When the document does speak about Islamist terrorist groups, it suggests that “Islamist terrorism is created by Western arrogance more than any sickness within Islam itself or Arabic cultures”. Moreover, “There is no mention at all of the Islamist killings of some 100 Australians in Bali, or of the Muslim terrorist plots in Australia itself, which have seen 20 people jailed.”
And the booklet contains plenty of historical revisionism: “Oh, and the Crusades are presented largely as noble Muslims defending holy lands from barbaric Christians. You’d never guess that Christians thought they were recapturing holy lands from Muslim armies that had overrun them militarily.”
If time permits, I will do a thorough evaluation and assessment of this misleading and mischievous document. For the time being, suffice it to say that this is little more than a pro-Islam indoctrination tract, and Australian students do not need this sort of propaganda being fed to them, all via our tax dollars.
41 Replies to “Islamist Indoctrination in Our Schools”
As a sufi moslem let me be the first to make a remark.
First of all I would like to thank Bill for an educational site. I have learnt much here.
I would like to say that if there is a portrayal of Islam in the negative it is their own doing. Their bad practices and their suspicion of everything and anything different has contributed to this fact.
I also agree that they are a minority group and this need not be done.
In time if they have assimilated into the Australian culture better ( and the onus is definitely upon them to do so) then that will speak louder than anything, for now they have must try very hard to put Australia first and contribute positively into this nation.
If they can show towards the Christians and Jews in their won country what they demand here then that will be the day when things will be more just and balanced in this world.
If this was in their nation they would not even teach about good Christians or good Jewish people who have contributed to a world we live in with knowledge democracy that is all so lacking in the moslem world.
I found this from a comment on Andrew Bolt’s website.
This propaganda has to STOP.
Jane Petridge
Hmm, I wonder if Richard Dawkins knows about this?
No doubt he will be foaming at the mouth when he does.
Such a manifest intrusion of religious indoctrination into the pure sciences and what a gross attempt to twist mathematics to religious ends!
Oh, the horror of it all!
/sarc
John Angelico
Seeking the truth intelligently & logically on any issue with Muslims and Islam is a near impossibility since it is ok to lie to the infidel to further the “noble Qur’an”.
As we all know the Web has hundreds of sites pointing out the rambling contradictions in the Qur’an; the following link is one of the many.
Quote: “There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman.
These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam – in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.”
I’m sure if a Muslim was asked if that statement is true he’d look you in the eye and with much finger waving and rambling diatribe deny it – just as he would deny that the Muslim aim is to Islamize our children and nation.
Grant Squelch. Melbourne Australia.
But why bother with debate and argument when subliminal culturalisation will do the job just as well?
Bill I see an irony here, perhaps God’s permissive will taking place. The Good Book teaches that we reap what we sow. This nation has seen fit to throw the God of the Bible out so He is allowing the god of this world to take His place. Out with the God of Love and Redemption and in with the god of hate and destruction. What fertile soil is being prepared for the Gospel to be sown into! It will be just like the days of old with we hope the power of God to save.
Keith Lewis
Bill I sent a request to Q&A tonight asking them, in light of Julia Gillard’s initiative through this programme you have written about, would they discuss the following questions:-
1. Is Islam A Safe ideology To Bring To Australia?
2. How will our governmental and law institutions control this ideology in Australia given that these same institutions are being used to further their cause?
Yes I know, a total waste of time!
Keith Lewis
We live in a world ruled by lies. Here, Bill has outlined one area of them (those propounded by Islamism/anti-Westernern-culturists), but there are others (eg. AGW, evolutionism, homosexualism). Personally I think that in time these will all be exposed and debunked – but by then there’ll be new, different ones. Our grandchildren will hardly know what AGW is (was); but there’ll be something new that we, today, would find incredible (rather as if you’d mentioned government-promoted same-sex marriage at a 1950 dinner-party).
John Thomas, UK
Bill,
I suspect this is more an effort by secularists and the anti Christian movement to eliminate Christianity altogether or significantly water down its influence in Australia, rather than their genuine concern for Islam. They are using Islam to implement their agenda as it appears to be the best tool and challenge to nudge off Christianity from the Australian scene. Just that they don’t realise they are replacing it with a greater danger that will come to bite them.
Barry Koh
Let’s not forget that over 60% of Australians still identify as being Christian and less than 2% identify as Muslims. But the majority of Australians and their views are held in contempt by intellectual guardians.
Barry Koh, be of no doubt that the secularists, having taken control of the nation’s conscience and reengineered the way our children think and feel, through soft coercion, are poised to enforce gay ideology, with hard coercion – imprisonment and confiscation of property, for those will not conform. Behind the Gay liberation front are indeed Marxist ideologues whose aim is destroy the building block of western democracy, the family and marriage. We are locked in a life and death struggle with forces that threaten to destroy us from within, whilst Islam waits from without and watches – until its time is right.
By calling it “racism” they are mixing apples and pears. I have nothing against people from Islamic countries: but I don’t like their religion. That’s an important difference.
But the problem you speak about we’ve had over here for some time. My son has been taught about Islam at his school. His religion teacher once told me that he’s a bright pupil, but irreverent about religion, and I felt terrible as I must be partially responsible for this as I raise him. On the one hand I’m glad he’s dismissive about Islam, but don’t want him to think of his own faith as the same. He once asked me if I’d rather he turned into a Muslim or an atheist.
This I think exposes the root of the problem. The problem (and I think this is a secularist plot), is that by teaching children about many religions, it waters down the impact their own religion should have on them. Why should my son be a good Christian when he’s presented with a pick and mix of alternatives at school? Schools should be places of Christian worship, but nowadays even atheists have to be respected!
It’s left entirely to me to attend to my son’s spiritual growth.
It’s time to say enough’s enough.
Barbara Murray-Leach
‘degree of prejudice and ignorance about Islam and Muslims’
But how can the children think otherwise when they see once again how an Islamic group goes and kill 70 odd people and injure some more – not during a war but while the victims watch the World Cup Soccer final, hosted in South Africa, in Uganda. It is an event which is pivotal for the development of Africa and could potentially mean a lot to the whole continent.
Servaas Hofmeyr, South Africa
But Barbara that is precisely where we have gone wrong. Christian parents like myself left it to youth pastors and the “experts” to take responsibility for the spiritual growth of our children. But the Bible makes no mention of youth pastors. The Bible is pretty explicit about parents taking full responsibility for their children.
If parents don’t take responsibility someone else will
David Skinner, UK
Yes, David Skinner, I agree. It breaks my heart to see my son exposed to all this mumbo-jumbo that I never had to put up with, and I do feel guilty to see him struggle to follow the Christian way. If he doesn’t grow up to accept Christ as his saviour, then what sort of person will he turn into? How will he know right from wrong? How will he be saved? This is not a trivial matter.
Yet you have churches like the Anglican and Catholic churches agreeing that evolution is true, for example, which he wastes no time in pointing out to me. My foot! How can they claim the bible is also true? No wonder our children’s minds are corrupted when you have churches as well as scientists and teachers filling their heads with this rubbish. When whole churches are veering off the right path, what hope is there for individuals to carry on and stick to our principles? There is hope, but sometimes I feel hopeless.
Barbara Murray-Leach
“…an Islamic group goes and kill 70 odd people and injure some more – not during a war but while the victims watch the World Cup Soccer final, hosted in South Africa …” – but remember, Servaas, in the Western media account it will just be the work of isolated criminals, not anything to do with Islamists (the “liberal” media and establishment are the ones to be blamed).
John Thomas, UK
Yes, I understand, I was not questioning that, just pointed at yet another account of what the media and those handing out these booklets are ignoring.
provide considerable background to this matter and reinforce the above concerns raised by Bill Muehlenberg.
Both of these blog sites contain numerous links and between them they have generated 414 responses.
John Miller
We as followers of Christ (note: not denominations) are to be all loving but not all embracing; we need to discern signs of the times and those who shout loudest will be heard. Barry Koh points this out when he says their shouting has sidelined us off our focus – Christ – living a spirit led life. David Skinner aptly points out there are no youth pastors in the bible. What a great revelation; so why do we put up with ritual on Sundays instead of fellowship? Because we fear to be different! Our faith is not strong enough to stand against the denominational gurus that not only mislead but teach non biblical truths. I said to our home based friends/Christ seekers one day a Tsunami will come and wipe out the church buildings and it came. What will you do when you sit alone under a pile of concrete with a bunch of non believers. Our faith is our lifestyle which must start at home. Our kids see us march off to ritual each week and ignore the very people we are trying to reach. Where is authentic Christianity that Jesus walked. Praise God for Bill and others who have no fear of challenging the status quo. Jesus took on the world one person at a time. We had our Pakistani Muslim friends over for tea and their questions were valid and our answers were of eternal consequence.
Ilona Sturla
Pardon the pun but what in God’s name is going on here? Where are our church leaders???? I am going to email this article to Peter Jensen and Fred Nile to start with and see what happens – at this point in time it looks as if we are only just hanging onto the edge of the toilet seat and it will not be long before we slide all the way if we do not speak up now!!! One small redeeming feature about myself is that I took responsibility for the spiritual growth of my sons when they were small and although they are not actively involved in a church at the moment, they are well aware of who God is and I am always gently reminding them with biblical verse emails and straight talks to them about spiritual matters – our children are our future and if we do not tell them about the evils of what is going on then we will DEFINITELY lose them to all manner of strange doctrine and false teaching. I have already spoken to my youngest son who is still in school about this crap – I told him to tell me if he hears about it in the classroom and tell me straight away. For those of you here who are parents, just keep an eye on these things.
Steve Davis
Barbara,
Its not just Anglicans and Catholics, many in the churches believe that evolution is true. They don’t seem to realize that this shoots Christianity in the head because they have no clear answer to atheists’ logical arguments that if Adam and Eve are myths, then sin and salvation are myths too.
As I see it, there is a huge problem in the church’s avoidance of the Old Testament, Genesis in particular. Christians seem ignorant or ashamed of the fact that the Bible, which they claim is God’s word, ties the creation-fall-salvation gospel message in to real history. No other religious book, whether Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Mormon etc, has anywhere near the historical credentials that the Bible, both OT and NT, has – let alone the amazing prophecies and miracles culminating in the Messiah.
Barbara, may I recommend some books for you and your son that will reinforce the truth that Christianity is soundly based in history?
“by this NAME” by John R Cross goes through the Bible presenting the historical big-picture view, taking the Bible as it presents itself – something sadly lacking in many churches. The book is intended for anyone – from those who know nothing of the Bible, to Christians for group or private study. I was so impressed when I read it two weeks ago that I bought a box of 24 so I could give them to friends and relatives, whether Christian or not. I got my copies from the Australian goodseed.com contact.
To counter evolution from a biblical Christian perspective: see creation.com.
“How Christianity Changed the World” (formerly “Under the influence”) by Alvin J. Schmidt, a very readable study of the advantages that Christianity has given the world – something no other religion, especially Islam, can claim. The book is a good antidote to counter the Christian bashers in the leftist west – especially for Christians who swallow the leftish lies in ignorance.
“How God Saved Civilization by James L. Garlow: a good readable warts and all history of the church.
Peter Newland
Steve Davis re: “… what in God’s name is going on here? Where are our church leaders????”
I would imagine the hundreds of babies that survive botched abortions around Australia every year and are simply left in a dish, or on a table, or sometimes in a bin, to die, would be asking the same question if they could.
But in the end, though, we’re all accountable to God (of the Bible) to speak out.
Trevor Grace
One thing we have all missed … the power of the fervent prayer of a righteous man. Let’s pray for our children and for the leaders of our great nation. God is great. He hears and answers our prayers. Let’s not lose sight of Jesus’ imminent return and His rule and reign on the earth. Hope deferred makes the heart grow sick so remain hopeful in our God – Yahweh, Jehovah, I Am – just to list a few of the distinctive names of the Christian God.
Deborah Lorkin
Deborah, I think your contribution is very timely, just this morning when I was reading this article by Bill, I sat there and asked myself “What can we do?” Well believe it or not we can do just what you reminded us of, sometimes I think we need reminding about these fundamentals and I for one will be taking your sound advice – well done and God bless you Deborah.
Steve Davis
Thank you to Peter for the recommendations, I will look into that. It may help, because I don’t pretend to know anything about science, but this doesn’t mean I can’t see how evolutionism is pure atheistic baloney! How can anyone think humans are the product of pure chance!? My son argues that I don’t know what I’m arguing about and I tell him he doesn’t know his bible well enough, and to trust God’s word over the say-so of scientists, who are always changing their minds anyway!! But I hope we argue less and less about this, not more and more.
I don’t know how strict to be about this, though, as I feel I should encourage his interests, but not when they lead him along such a dangerous path. If he was interested in drugs, I wouldn’t encourage that either. I’ve decided Richard Dawkins is banned in our house, and so far my son hasn’t bought any of that rubbish, or even mentioned him, which is a good sign, but it seems like that man and others peddling the evolution lie are never off the television, even at times children will be watching. I’m looking into some Christian-run events for young people that will offer him an alternative perspective from the blinkered, dogmatic one he gets in science classes.
Barbara Murray-Leach
Barbara, simply by banning any mention of evolution or Dawkins, in your home, I do not believe is a wise move. You need to equip your son with reasonable arguments so that he can stand in the public space and stand on his own feet. Plus, being challenged about our faith is an open invitation to speak of our faith in Jesus Christ. We need to rehearse our arguments and be clear about what we believe and why we believe it, otherwise people will just think we are religious nutters. “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.” 1 Peter 3:15
David Skinner, UK
Barbara – if you want an easy analysis of this issue then here is a small example that might help you in explaining God’s existence to your son. This is one that I have used in the past and I have yet to have anyone come back at me. Here goes: Take the human body – it has 3 attributes that can never be functions of chance: 1. Design, 2. Order, 3. Consistency. Now if I throw a handful of sand in your eye what happens? The first thing is that the tear ducts will swing into action to wash out the foreign body. Then if I come back the next day and do exactly the same thing what happens? The exact same process again and again and again! First there is DESIGN – the tear ducts to wash out foreign bodies from the eye. Then comes the ORDER: the tear ducts acitivate after the sand is thrown in the eye, never before. Finally, CONSISTENCY, the same process again and again. Also you might want to throw into the ring this argument: Tell me who decides when you are born and when you will leave this life? This certainly gets people thinking as well. We will be praying for you Barbara.
Steve Davis
I think any lesson on Islam would be incomplete without mentioning FGM and the Prophet’s child bride. Most Australians would be revolted.
Rob Merrells
Yes quite right Rob.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Barbara, I agree with David S. Don’t fear Dawkins.
For science stuff, make it a priority get familiar with http://creation.com. It has thousands of easily searchable articles from simple to PHD level stuff that you can download free. Or browse their bookshop, e.g. Creation Magazine; &/ “The Greatest Hoax on Earth – Refuting Dawkins on Evolution”; &/ the “Creation Answers Book”.
Peter Newland
Hi Bill
I note a number of writers have linked the similar aims of Secular humanism and Islam. Both want Christianity marginalised. Our (Barnabas Fund) latest magazine looks at this an calls for the Christian Church to wake up and get back to what She should be. I commend it to your readers. On this issue of the teaching book promoting Islam it would be good if there was a similar book placed in our schools outlining the plight of Christians and other minorities living in countries where Sharia is implemented.
Ian Wright
Thanks Ian
Yes the pull-out supplement “The Islamisation of the West” in your July/August 2010 Barnabasaid is very good indeed. Will it appear on your website soon?
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Thank you very much Peter Newland.
I tackled my son with Steve Davis’s evolution-lie rebuttal last night. His answer was to pick up one of his ferrets (he has two pet ferrets that he’s really good at looking after because I told him I didn’t have the time to look after a dog – one compromise that did succeed!) and to ask if I thought the ferret’s eye worked in a similar way. I could see where he was leading to, so I told him I didn’t know but didn’t think so, and he went all moody and quiet, so we left it at that. I need to do more homework myself on creationism to brace myself for the coming years, because I feel so frustrated when I can’t answer his questions and he is actively seeking out weaknesses now. He’s off school now until September, so my hands are pretty full, but I must admit I’ve been looking forward to spending more time with him, and hopefully we’ll get back to praying together like we used to, and hopefully have a holiday in the countryside too. Am feeling positive today!
Thank you all for your kindness though, I’m glad to have found you.
Barbara Murray-Leach
Hang in there Barbara – always pray and NEVER give up – remember the parable of the unjust judge in Matthew, and also BE FAITHFUL!
Steve Davis
Barbara, please be encouraged. Sometimes our children go around this way and come back with a complete transformation wrought only by the Spirit of God. Holy Spirit will have opportunity to laser beam a truth into your sons life that will not only convince him, but will effectively turn others to the truth. God is able. He alone knows the heart of a man and He alone can change it. One word from God – just one word. Be at peace and allow God to do the work. Amen! Just another mother encouraging another mother.
Deborah Lorkin
Hi, Just to put it on the public record. I broke the story on the Muslim curriculum with the Sunday Herald Sun – before Andrew Bolt picked it up. My critique can be found at http://www.edstandards.com.au
Kevin Donnelly
Well done Kevin.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Hi again Barbara, if ferrets’ eyes are similar to ours: we could assume humans and ferrets evolved from a common ancestor; OR, we could assume that God, our common designer, created us with similar eyes. So which idea is best? Does the scientific method of using repeatable experiments give more support to evolution or to creation?
Now Natural Selection, or descent with modification, can be demonstrated by the scientific method – but there is no experiment known where organisms ‘evolve’ complex new features. Natural Selection eliminates or restores existing design variation, but never creates complex new functions. Similarly, the evidence is that mutations cause damage rather than create new features. Finally, all known experiments show that life only comes from pre-existing life and that dead stuff stays dead.
To believe that life arose accidentally is like saying that dumb atoms wrote the most incredibly complex software of life (DNA) and simultaneously made all the incredibly delicate complex machinery necessary for even the most ‘simple’ life to maintain itself and to reproduce both the software and the organism. So evolution can be described as faith that dead stuff became alive for no known reason and evolved from simple to complex against the known laws of experimental science. It takes a lot of faith to believe that! I think it is far more logical to have faith that God wrote the DNA software and created the different kinds of life we see – all as the Bible says.
But if all that seems too theoretical, don’t despair! You don’t have to become an expert. For example, put “eye evolution” (with quotes) into the search box at the top right of http://creation.com and it returns 27 articles about eye evolution from a biblical creation perspective. The ‘Contact’ button on that website also allows you to ask questions via email – and I’m happy for Bill to pass you my email address. Hmm, we are somewhat off topic.
Peter Newland
Thanks again Peter. It’s all useful!
Barbara Murray-Leach
The articles written, and the comments stated by Andrew Bolt each indicate that a decision will be made either in support or opposing the teaching of Islam in the Australian education system. If Islam is to be taught in schools then I believe that it needs to be taught in it’s entirely including the beliefs on the death penalty. If Islam is taught widely without restrictions in Schools then should not also Christianity be taught in both Primary and High Schools in order for students to have a fair and clear understanding of both religious beliefs? It will take time and a process one which i think will eventually cause people to choose where they stand on religious education in our nation.
I am a passionate Christian who believes people make their choice we all have free will and are entitled to choose our beliefs.
As a sufi moslem let me be the first to make a remark.
First of all I would like to thank Bill for an educational site. I have learnt much here.
I would like to say that if there is a portrayal of Islam in the negative it is their own doing. Their bad practices and their suspicion of everything and anything different has contributed to this fact.
I also agree that they are a minority group and this need not be done.
In time if they have assimilated into the Australian culture better ( and the onus is definitely upon them to do so) then that will speak louder than anything, for now they have must try very hard to put Australia first and contribute positively into this nation.
If they can show towards the Christians and Jews in their won country what they demand here then that will be the day when things will be more just and balanced in this world.
If this was in their nation they would not even teach about good Christians or good Jewish people who have contributed to a world we live in with knowledge democracy that is all so lacking in the moslem world.
Siti Khatijah
http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3552:teachers-feast-an-interesting-day-out&catid=203&Itemid=59
I found this from a comment on Andrew Bolt’s website.
This propaganda has to STOP.
Jane Petridge
Hmm, I wonder if Richard Dawkins knows about this?
No doubt he will be foaming at the mouth when he does.
Such a manifest intrusion of religious indoctrination into the pure sciences and what a gross attempt to twist mathematics to religious ends!
Oh, the horror of it all!
/sarc
John Angelico
Seeking the truth intelligently & logically on any issue with Muslims and Islam is a near impossibility since it is ok to lie to the infidel to further the “noble Qur’an”.
As we all know the Web has hundreds of sites pointing out the rambling contradictions in the Qur’an; the following link is one of the many.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/011-taqiyya.htm
Quote: “There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman.
These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam – in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.”
I’m sure if a Muslim was asked if that statement is true he’d look you in the eye and with much finger waving and rambling diatribe deny it – just as he would deny that the Muslim aim is to Islamize our children and nation.
Grant Squelch. Melbourne Australia.
But why bother with debate and argument when subliminal culturalisation will do the job just as well?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7884040/Council-tells-schools-to-rearrange-exams-and-cancel-swimming-for-Ramadan.html
David Skinner, UK
Bill I see an irony here, perhaps God’s permissive will taking place. The Good Book teaches that we reap what we sow. This nation has seen fit to throw the God of the Bible out so He is allowing the god of this world to take His place. Out with the God of Love and Redemption and in with the god of hate and destruction. What fertile soil is being prepared for the Gospel to be sown into! It will be just like the days of old with we hope the power of God to save.
Keith Lewis
Bill I sent a request to Q&A tonight asking them, in light of Julia Gillard’s initiative through this programme you have written about, would they discuss the following questions:-
1. Is Islam A Safe ideology To Bring To Australia?
2. How will our governmental and law institutions control this ideology in Australia given that these same institutions are being used to further their cause?
Yes I know, a total waste of time!
Keith Lewis
We live in a world ruled by lies. Here, Bill has outlined one area of them (those propounded by Islamism/anti-Westernern-culturists), but there are others (eg. AGW, evolutionism, homosexualism). Personally I think that in time these will all be exposed and debunked – but by then there’ll be new, different ones. Our grandchildren will hardly know what AGW is (was); but there’ll be something new that we, today, would find incredible (rather as if you’d mentioned government-promoted same-sex marriage at a 1950 dinner-party).
John Thomas, UK
Bill,
I suspect this is more an effort by secularists and the anti Christian movement to eliminate Christianity altogether or significantly water down its influence in Australia, rather than their genuine concern for Islam. They are using Islam to implement their agenda as it appears to be the best tool and challenge to nudge off Christianity from the Australian scene. Just that they don’t realise they are replacing it with a greater danger that will come to bite them.
Barry Koh
Let’s not forget that over 60% of Australians still identify as being Christian and less than 2% identify as Muslims. But the majority of Australians and their views are held in contempt by intellectual guardians.
Kevin Donnelly has some wise words on Alan Jones here on this matter. He doesn’t buy the nonsense that Islam is a peaceful religion and nor does he have any flattering words for Gillard’s take on history;
http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_podcasting&task=playaudio&id=2&f=1&Itemid=41
http://australianconservative.com/2010/07/call-for-schools-to-teach-a-positive-view-of-islam-while-branding-australia-racist/
Damien Spillane
Barry Koh, be of no doubt that the secularists, having taken control of the nation’s conscience and reengineered the way our children think and feel, through soft coercion, are poised to enforce gay ideology, with hard coercion – imprisonment and confiscation of property, for those will not conform. Behind the Gay liberation front are indeed Marxist ideologues whose aim is destroy the building block of western democracy, the family and marriage. We are locked in a life and death struggle with forces that threaten to destroy us from within, whilst Islam waits from without and watches – until its time is right.
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1083036
David Skinner, UK
By calling it “racism” they are mixing apples and pears. I have nothing against people from Islamic countries: but I don’t like their religion. That’s an important difference.
But the problem you speak about we’ve had over here for some time. My son has been taught about Islam at his school. His religion teacher once told me that he’s a bright pupil, but irreverent about religion, and I felt terrible as I must be partially responsible for this as I raise him. On the one hand I’m glad he’s dismissive about Islam, but don’t want him to think of his own faith as the same. He once asked me if I’d rather he turned into a Muslim or an atheist.
This I think exposes the root of the problem. The problem (and I think this is a secularist plot), is that by teaching children about many religions, it waters down the impact their own religion should have on them. Why should my son be a good Christian when he’s presented with a pick and mix of alternatives at school? Schools should be places of Christian worship, but nowadays even atheists have to be respected!
It’s left entirely to me to attend to my son’s spiritual growth.
It’s time to say enough’s enough.
Barbara Murray-Leach
‘degree of prejudice and ignorance about Islam and Muslims’
But how can the children think otherwise when they see once again how an Islamic group goes and kill 70 odd people and injure some more – not during a war but while the victims watch the World Cup Soccer final, hosted in South Africa, in Uganda. It is an event which is pivotal for the development of Africa and could potentially mean a lot to the whole continent.
Servaas Hofmeyr, South Africa
But Barbara that is precisely where we have gone wrong. Christian parents like myself left it to youth pastors and the “experts” to take responsibility for the spiritual growth of our children. But the Bible makes no mention of youth pastors. The Bible is pretty explicit about parents taking full responsibility for their children.
http://bible-truth.org/msg85.html
http://www.sepschool.org/essays/snyder/mandate.php
If parents don’t take responsibility someone else will
David Skinner, UK
Yes, David Skinner, I agree. It breaks my heart to see my son exposed to all this mumbo-jumbo that I never had to put up with, and I do feel guilty to see him struggle to follow the Christian way. If he doesn’t grow up to accept Christ as his saviour, then what sort of person will he turn into? How will he know right from wrong? How will he be saved? This is not a trivial matter.
Yet you have churches like the Anglican and Catholic churches agreeing that evolution is true, for example, which he wastes no time in pointing out to me. My foot! How can they claim the bible is also true? No wonder our children’s minds are corrupted when you have churches as well as scientists and teachers filling their heads with this rubbish. When whole churches are veering off the right path, what hope is there for individuals to carry on and stick to our principles? There is hope, but sometimes I feel hopeless.
Barbara Murray-Leach
“…an Islamic group goes and kill 70 odd people and injure some more – not during a war but while the victims watch the World Cup Soccer final, hosted in South Africa …” – but remember, Servaas, in the Western media account it will just be the work of isolated criminals, not anything to do with Islamists (the “liberal” media and establishment are the ones to be blamed).
John Thomas, UK
Yes, I understand, I was not questioning that, just pointed at yet another account of what the media and those handing out these booklets are ignoring.
Servaas Hofmeyr, South Africa
Andrew Bolt’s
“Famous” bin Laden: teaching children our fear of terrorism is racist
and the Australian Islamist Monitor’s
Petition against LFOA
provide considerable background to this matter and reinforce the above concerns raised by Bill Muehlenberg.
Both of these blog sites contain numerous links and between them they have generated 414 responses.
John Miller
We as followers of Christ (note: not denominations) are to be all loving but not all embracing; we need to discern signs of the times and those who shout loudest will be heard. Barry Koh points this out when he says their shouting has sidelined us off our focus – Christ – living a spirit led life. David Skinner aptly points out there are no youth pastors in the bible. What a great revelation; so why do we put up with ritual on Sundays instead of fellowship? Because we fear to be different! Our faith is not strong enough to stand against the denominational gurus that not only mislead but teach non biblical truths. I said to our home based friends/Christ seekers one day a Tsunami will come and wipe out the church buildings and it came. What will you do when you sit alone under a pile of concrete with a bunch of non believers. Our faith is our lifestyle which must start at home. Our kids see us march off to ritual each week and ignore the very people we are trying to reach. Where is authentic Christianity that Jesus walked. Praise God for Bill and others who have no fear of challenging the status quo. Jesus took on the world one person at a time. We had our Pakistani Muslim friends over for tea and their questions were valid and our answers were of eternal consequence.
Ilona Sturla
Pardon the pun but what in God’s name is going on here? Where are our church leaders???? I am going to email this article to Peter Jensen and Fred Nile to start with and see what happens – at this point in time it looks as if we are only just hanging onto the edge of the toilet seat and it will not be long before we slide all the way if we do not speak up now!!! One small redeeming feature about myself is that I took responsibility for the spiritual growth of my sons when they were small and although they are not actively involved in a church at the moment, they are well aware of who God is and I am always gently reminding them with biblical verse emails and straight talks to them about spiritual matters – our children are our future and if we do not tell them about the evils of what is going on then we will DEFINITELY lose them to all manner of strange doctrine and false teaching. I have already spoken to my youngest son who is still in school about this crap – I told him to tell me if he hears about it in the classroom and tell me straight away. For those of you here who are parents, just keep an eye on these things.
Steve Davis
Barbara,
Its not just Anglicans and Catholics, many in the churches believe that evolution is true. They don’t seem to realize that this shoots Christianity in the head because they have no clear answer to atheists’ logical arguments that if Adam and Eve are myths, then sin and salvation are myths too.
As I see it, there is a huge problem in the church’s avoidance of the Old Testament, Genesis in particular. Christians seem ignorant or ashamed of the fact that the Bible, which they claim is God’s word, ties the creation-fall-salvation gospel message in to real history. No other religious book, whether Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Mormon etc, has anywhere near the historical credentials that the Bible, both OT and NT, has – let alone the amazing prophecies and miracles culminating in the Messiah.
Barbara, may I recommend some books for you and your son that will reinforce the truth that Christianity is soundly based in history?
“by this NAME” by John R Cross goes through the Bible presenting the historical big-picture view, taking the Bible as it presents itself – something sadly lacking in many churches. The book is intended for anyone – from those who know nothing of the Bible, to Christians for group or private study. I was so impressed when I read it two weeks ago that I bought a box of 24 so I could give them to friends and relatives, whether Christian or not. I got my copies from the Australian goodseed.com contact.
To counter evolution from a biblical Christian perspective: see creation.com.
“How Christianity Changed the World” (formerly “Under the influence”) by Alvin J. Schmidt, a very readable study of the advantages that Christianity has given the world – something no other religion, especially Islam, can claim. The book is a good antidote to counter the Christian bashers in the leftist west – especially for Christians who swallow the leftish lies in ignorance.
“How God Saved Civilization by James L. Garlow: a good readable warts and all history of the church.
Peter Newland
Steve Davis re: “… what in God’s name is going on here? Where are our church leaders????”
I would imagine the hundreds of babies that survive botched abortions around Australia every year and are simply left in a dish, or on a table, or sometimes in a bin, to die, would be asking the same question if they could.
But in the end, though, we’re all accountable to God (of the Bible) to speak out.
Trevor Grace
One thing we have all missed … the power of the fervent prayer of a righteous man. Let’s pray for our children and for the leaders of our great nation. God is great. He hears and answers our prayers. Let’s not lose sight of Jesus’ imminent return and His rule and reign on the earth. Hope deferred makes the heart grow sick so remain hopeful in our God – Yahweh, Jehovah, I Am – just to list a few of the distinctive names of the Christian God.
Deborah Lorkin
Deborah, I think your contribution is very timely, just this morning when I was reading this article by Bill, I sat there and asked myself “What can we do?” Well believe it or not we can do just what you reminded us of, sometimes I think we need reminding about these fundamentals and I for one will be taking your sound advice – well done and God bless you Deborah.
Steve Davis
Hear no evil. See no evil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76STxsWJCCE&feature=related
David Skinner, UK
Thank you to Peter for the recommendations, I will look into that. It may help, because I don’t pretend to know anything about science, but this doesn’t mean I can’t see how evolutionism is pure atheistic baloney! How can anyone think humans are the product of pure chance!? My son argues that I don’t know what I’m arguing about and I tell him he doesn’t know his bible well enough, and to trust God’s word over the say-so of scientists, who are always changing their minds anyway!! But I hope we argue less and less about this, not more and more.
I don’t know how strict to be about this, though, as I feel I should encourage his interests, but not when they lead him along such a dangerous path. If he was interested in drugs, I wouldn’t encourage that either. I’ve decided Richard Dawkins is banned in our house, and so far my son hasn’t bought any of that rubbish, or even mentioned him, which is a good sign, but it seems like that man and others peddling the evolution lie are never off the television, even at times children will be watching. I’m looking into some Christian-run events for young people that will offer him an alternative perspective from the blinkered, dogmatic one he gets in science classes.
Barbara Murray-Leach
Barbara, simply by banning any mention of evolution or Dawkins, in your home, I do not believe is a wise move. You need to equip your son with reasonable arguments so that he can stand in the public space and stand on his own feet. Plus, being challenged about our faith is an open invitation to speak of our faith in Jesus Christ. We need to rehearse our arguments and be clear about what we believe and why we believe it, otherwise people will just think we are religious nutters. “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.” 1 Peter 3:15
David Skinner, UK
Barbara – if you want an easy analysis of this issue then here is a small example that might help you in explaining God’s existence to your son. This is one that I have used in the past and I have yet to have anyone come back at me. Here goes: Take the human body – it has 3 attributes that can never be functions of chance: 1. Design, 2. Order, 3. Consistency. Now if I throw a handful of sand in your eye what happens? The first thing is that the tear ducts will swing into action to wash out the foreign body. Then if I come back the next day and do exactly the same thing what happens? The exact same process again and again and again! First there is DESIGN – the tear ducts to wash out foreign bodies from the eye. Then comes the ORDER: the tear ducts acitivate after the sand is thrown in the eye, never before. Finally, CONSISTENCY, the same process again and again. Also you might want to throw into the ring this argument: Tell me who decides when you are born and when you will leave this life? This certainly gets people thinking as well. We will be praying for you Barbara.
Steve Davis
I think any lesson on Islam would be incomplete without mentioning FGM and the Prophet’s child bride. Most Australians would be revolted.
Rob Merrells
Yes quite right Rob.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Barbara, I agree with David S. Don’t fear Dawkins.
For science stuff, make it a priority get familiar with http://creation.com. It has thousands of easily searchable articles from simple to PHD level stuff that you can download free. Or browse their bookshop, e.g. Creation Magazine; &/ “The Greatest Hoax on Earth – Refuting Dawkins on Evolution”; &/ the “Creation Answers Book”.
Peter Newland
Hi Bill
I note a number of writers have linked the similar aims of Secular humanism and Islam. Both want Christianity marginalised. Our (Barnabas Fund) latest magazine looks at this an calls for the Christian Church to wake up and get back to what She should be. I commend it to your readers. On this issue of the teaching book promoting Islam it would be good if there was a similar book placed in our schools outlining the plight of Christians and other minorities living in countries where Sharia is implemented.
Ian Wright
Thanks Ian
Yes the pull-out supplement “The Islamisation of the West” in your July/August 2010 Barnabasaid is very good indeed. Will it appear on your website soon?
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Thank you very much Peter Newland.
I tackled my son with Steve Davis’s evolution-lie rebuttal last night. His answer was to pick up one of his ferrets (he has two pet ferrets that he’s really good at looking after because I told him I didn’t have the time to look after a dog – one compromise that did succeed!) and to ask if I thought the ferret’s eye worked in a similar way. I could see where he was leading to, so I told him I didn’t know but didn’t think so, and he went all moody and quiet, so we left it at that. I need to do more homework myself on creationism to brace myself for the coming years, because I feel so frustrated when I can’t answer his questions and he is actively seeking out weaknesses now. He’s off school now until September, so my hands are pretty full, but I must admit I’ve been looking forward to spending more time with him, and hopefully we’ll get back to praying together like we used to, and hopefully have a holiday in the countryside too. Am feeling positive today!
Thank you all for your kindness though, I’m glad to have found you.
Barbara Murray-Leach
Hang in there Barbara – always pray and NEVER give up – remember the parable of the unjust judge in Matthew, and also BE FAITHFUL!
Steve Davis
Barbara, please be encouraged. Sometimes our children go around this way and come back with a complete transformation wrought only by the Spirit of God. Holy Spirit will have opportunity to laser beam a truth into your sons life that will not only convince him, but will effectively turn others to the truth. God is able. He alone knows the heart of a man and He alone can change it. One word from God – just one word. Be at peace and allow God to do the work. Amen! Just another mother encouraging another mother.
Deborah Lorkin
Hi, Just to put it on the public record. I broke the story on the Muslim curriculum with the Sunday Herald Sun – before Andrew Bolt picked it up. My critique can be found at http://www.edstandards.com.au
Kevin Donnelly
Well done Kevin.
Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch
Hi again Barbara, if ferrets’ eyes are similar to ours: we could assume humans and ferrets evolved from a common ancestor; OR, we could assume that God, our common designer, created us with similar eyes. So which idea is best? Does the scientific method of using repeatable experiments give more support to evolution or to creation?
Now Natural Selection, or descent with modification, can be demonstrated by the scientific method – but there is no experiment known where organisms ‘evolve’ complex new features. Natural Selection eliminates or restores existing design variation, but never creates complex new functions. Similarly, the evidence is that mutations cause damage rather than create new features. Finally, all known experiments show that life only comes from pre-existing life and that dead stuff stays dead.
To believe that life arose accidentally is like saying that dumb atoms wrote the most incredibly complex software of life (DNA) and simultaneously made all the incredibly delicate complex machinery necessary for even the most ‘simple’ life to maintain itself and to reproduce both the software and the organism. So evolution can be described as faith that dead stuff became alive for no known reason and evolved from simple to complex against the known laws of experimental science. It takes a lot of faith to believe that! I think it is far more logical to have faith that God wrote the DNA software and created the different kinds of life we see – all as the Bible says.
But if all that seems too theoretical, don’t despair! You don’t have to become an expert. For example, put “eye evolution” (with quotes) into the search box at the top right of http://creation.com and it returns 27 articles about eye evolution from a biblical creation perspective. The ‘Contact’ button on that website also allows you to ask questions via email – and I’m happy for Bill to pass you my email address. Hmm, we are somewhat off topic.
Peter Newland
Thanks again Peter. It’s all useful!
Barbara Murray-Leach
The articles written, and the comments stated by Andrew Bolt each indicate that a decision will be made either in support or opposing the teaching of Islam in the Australian education system. If Islam is to be taught in schools then I believe that it needs to be taught in it’s entirely including the beliefs on the death penalty. If Islam is taught widely without restrictions in Schools then should not also Christianity be taught in both Primary and High Schools in order for students to have a fair and clear understanding of both religious beliefs? It will take time and a process one which i think will eventually cause people to choose where they stand on religious education in our nation.
I am a passionate Christian who believes people make their choice we all have free will and are entitled to choose our beliefs.
Jessica Malia