CultureWatch

Bill Muehlenberg's commentary on issues of the day...

Outspoken Christians Will Not Be Tolerated

Apr 11, 2019

Well, that didn’t take long. For daring to share some Scripture passages on his own social media page, Australian rugby star Israel Folau has been given the boot – all in the name of tolerance and inclusion of course. As one report puts it:

Israel Folau is set to be sacked following his social media posts on Wednesday night, leaving the Wallabies’ preparations ahead of September’s World Cup in chaos. A year after telling gay people that they were destined for hell on Instagram, the 30-year-old doubled down on his hateful, harmful rhetoric by sharing a meme that informed the masses that hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters” on the social media platform.
www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/wallabies/it-is-our-intention-to-terminate-his-contract-rugby-australia-to-sack-israel-folau/news-story/8dc44f656f18a9a69d8540362c75e89b?fbclid=IwAR0KVHiQwfHrEJazcPTVUAZCsD4l7ykMTKFBk4pylT5edGE5WClXDF5jJpI&nk=6f34e64bb32ba5e868f86c019617cddf-1554978934

Hmm, “hateful, harmful rhetoric”? Nothing like throwing in some editorialising with your reporting mate. But this is always how the tolerance crowd operates – drone on and on about it all the time, but refuse to practice it when it comes to Christians and conservatives.

Of course it is not hard to see why the persecution of Folau was so swift and severe: Qantas, headed by a homosexual, is a major sponsor of the Wallabies. They are not really into love and acceptance. Qantas boss Alan Joyce said a few years back that if you are not pro-homosexual you should not fly with Qantas: billmuehlenberg.com/2016/04/27/godless-corporations-rampant-discrimination-blackmailing-christians/

And get a load of this statement from Qantas: “These comments are really disappointing and clearly don’t reflect the spirit of inclusion and diversity that we support.” Um, let me see if I got this straight: in the name of inclusion and diversity Qantas and Rugby Australia will NOT tolerate and include Folau. Sure, makes perfect sense.

The attack on him has been relentless. As I keep saying, I expect pagans to hate on Christians. What grieves my spirit deeply is how many so-called Christians have been blasting him as well. As but one example of many, I had one gal say this on a social media post about him:

Bill Muehlenberg Homosexuality is not the only sin referred to in scripture – I would take his stand far more seriously if he highlighted other sins impacting professional sportsmen and women as well – e.g. cheating, rough and unnecessarily aggressive play, greed, and the most serious of all not placing God first in their lives. Further, these sins have far more serious consequences impacting the lives of others, than what goes on between two consenting adults in the privacy of their own bedrooms.

To which I replied:

Thanks, but you obviously did not even bother to read my article (nor the remarks of Folau). Had you actually done so instead of offering us your knee jerk reaction you would have seen that he did EXACTLY that!! He highlighted a whole bunch of sins! He mentioned an entire list of sins, not just homosexuality. Indeed, he simply quoted a list of sins from Scripture.

But what has bothered me far more than these clueless Christians are all the Christian “leaders” who have come out to attack him and rebuke him. This I find so very worrying. One online Christian magazine asked a bunch of these leaders what they would say to Folau.

Most of their replies were really rather appalling. Most accused Folau of being unloving and judgmental and ungracious and condemning and reckless – the very same things most non-Christians call Christians when they seek to share biblical truth.

One spoke of “Folau’s clodhopping use of the Bible — with verses ripped out of context and lists of ‘sinners’ bound for hell, without any sense of the broader story — distorts the core message of the text”. Umm, he simply quoted some Scriptures which speak to the situation at hand. And such people are NOT sinners? You mean Paul was wrong?

Why do I suspect that some of these leaders would condemn the prophets, Jesus, Paul and Peter for the way they shared truth and evangelised? Why do I suspect that some of them would think they have a better grip on these matters than they did?

And all this despite what Folau has actually said – the stuff the lamestream media and clueless Christians do NOT want you to be aware of. He recently wrote some pieces seeking to explain his stance. Let me quote from some of it:

People’s lives are not for me to judge. Only God can do that. I have sinned many times in my life. I take responsibility for those sins and ask for forgiveness through repentance daily. I understand a lot of people won’t agree with some of the things I’m about to write. That’s absolutely fine. In life, you are allowed to agree to disagree. But I would like to explain to you what I believe in, how I arrived at these beliefs and why I will not compromise my faith in Jesus Christ, which is the cornerstone of every single thing in my life.

I hope this will provide some context to the discussion that started with my reply to a question asked of me on Instagram two weeks ago. I read the Bible every day. It gives me a sense of peace I have not been able to find in any other area of my life. It gives me direction. It answers my questions. I believe that it is a loving gesture to share passages from the Bible with others. I do it all the time when people ask me questions about my faith or things relating to their lives, whether that’s in-person or on my social media accounts….

I have tried to live my life in God’s footsteps ever since. I follow his teachings and read the Bible all the time in order to learn and become a better person. Since that happened I have been at peace and enjoyed life with an open, honest heart, which is why my faith in Jesus comes first. I would sooner lose everything – friends, family, possessions, my football career, the lot – and still stand with Jesus, than have all of those things and not stand beside Him….

Anyone who knows me knows I am not the type to upset people intentionally. Since my social media posts were publicised, it has been suggested that I am homophobic and bigoted and that I have a problem with gay people. This could not be further from the truth. I fronted the cover of the Star Observer magazine to show my support for the Bingham Cup, which is an international gay rugby competition for both men and women. I believe in inclusion. In my heart, I know I do not have any phobia towards anyone.
www.playersvoice.com.au/israel-folau-im-a-sinner-too/?fbclid=IwAR0dvHeZx-0TOh45Zqo_BPdCSX2Rm86i-yPcAybo6nTnSHdkMd6fBToWgHI

I for one support Israel and am praying for him. I will ignore the legion of armchair critics and keep seeking to encourage him. That does not mean I would do everything the way he has done it, as I wrote in my earlier piece: billmuehlenberg.com/2019/04/11/israel-folau-the-apostle-paul-and-the-gospel/

But I applaud his courage and his dedication to Christ. And yes, it IS a loving thing to do to warn the sinner about his fate and to urge him to run to Christ: billmuehlenberg.com/2019/04/11/yes-it-is-loving-to-tell-sinners-about-hell/

Sorry, but give me one courageous – albeit imperfect – Israel Folau instead of a thousand of his milquetoast critics any day of the week. God bless you Israel.

[1218 words]

52 Responses to Outspoken Christians Will Not Be Tolerated

  • Hmmm less than a week ago CW turned 13 and Bill noted that he usually writes one piece a day, but on some he might pen 2, 3 or even 4. I guess this is one of those days where a single piece wouldn’t suffice. 😀

  • Hey, I still have another hour before midnight Andrew – plenty of time for my fourth article!

  • Actually you have an hour and a half if you travel north, and up to three and a half hours if you leadfoot it west.

    Perhaps other CW regulars can suggest topics for a possible 4th. 🙂

  • I don’t know if it’s too late but:
    https://www.austfamily.com.au/stand_with_folau

  • Excellent summary Bill. Balanced reporting is a far flung dream in our society-thanks for trying to rectify that.

  • Israel
    10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matt 5:10-12

  • To vilify or punish Israel in ANY way let alone to deny him livelihood -sack him for his views is unethical, hypocritical and intolerable in a civilised society especially in Australia!

    Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 11 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.12 (Matthew 5:11-12).

  • Good for Israel Folau. I can never decide if it’s amusing or exasperating that the people who talk incessantly about being ‘inclusive’ could not fail to do that any more obviously.
    “We’re inclusive! Wait – you think differently to all of us? Get lost!”
    As Philip and Antoinette both observed, Jesus spoke directly to what is happening to him.

  • I totally agree with your comments Bill. Folau is being crucified by the ‘tolerant’ media and by those who do not want to acknowledge that all the faults of men listed are offences against God and that for all of us we are called upon to repent our sins. Those ‘Christian’ critics are like the Pharisees etc in the presence of Pilot.
    There is the other aspects that Man does not give enough recognition is the the social consequences of the sins of Man.
    Having said that I would nuance for example the inclusion of ”atheism’ a bit more finely. An atheist can follow the Natural Law and be a very good and loving citizen in society but finds it very difficult to acknowledge a Supreme Intelligence behind all that the Universe shows etc.
    But as you show in quoting Israel’s more nuanced social media comments on the issues he raised – God is the final judge of us all and knows what is in our hearts as we are all sinners .

  • If any young men or boys need a role model then here is a man who you may consider trying to emulate his courage and faith. For us young women who will be seeking husband’s in a few years time use this mans courage as the measure of a man and settle for nothing less.

    If Israel Folau had said the the opposite and equal on the left he would be hailed a hero. The church may not be united behind this man but we girls are.

    Molly, Milly, Alice, Katie and Sarah.

  • Sorry Bill but Israel Folau has lost my support.

    “Exclusive In unseen footage, controversial former Wallabies star Israel Folau can be seen launching an attack on Christmas, Easter and Catholicism in a sermon at his local church. WATCH THE VIDEO HERE.”

    Would a true Christian attack other Christians? Dividing God’s Church is the work of the Devil.

  • Thanks Michael. But it seems you have often come to my site attacking other Christians! I have long worked against sectarianism here, and I do not like Christians who attack Christmas and Easter, but despite some differences, I certainly will keep supporting Israel. An attack on one believer is an attack on all believers. Leave it to a secular newspaper to try to get Christians to turn on each other. I ain’t falling for it, but it is a shame that some have.

  • What a tragic and telling indictment on our society, media and sporting bodies. Israel is a hero and a great role model treated in such a bigoted, unjust way. So much for freedom of speech. “1984” is well and truly here. He should turn the tables and claim racial discrimination!

  • One thing many in hell would surely desire that someone had witnessed to them about their sinful lives and thus given them the opportunity to repent from all of their misdeeds and turn to Christ. A Christless eternity would be a most horrific sentence any could be given.
    Rod

  • Thanks, Bill…The main reason Christians are under such global attack is a lack of conviction minded church leaders! The shep has to defend the shepherds, but it surely should be the other way around. Heaven forbid if they offend the hierarchy, and “waste” their valuable time drumming up new ideas, of how they can improve their “relevant” church programs…
    Israel Folau is actually just speaking His truth, and remember the list of other “sins” he listed on his brave posting…

    A real lesson to stand up for Jesus Christ, especially as we come to honour His magnificent glorious deed on that Cross at Calvery, at Easter time.

    Cheers & Blessings
    Eric

    PS! Bill, I love your inspiring conviction, keep it up as we pray and try to glorify Jesus Christ in our daily lives(:

  • Isn’t it ironic. In ‘super-sophisticated’ Australia, there is a man named ‘Israel’, with a Pacific-island heritage, who is a role model for Christians.

  • The only email contact for Rugby Australia I could find was:-

    [email protected]

    I have already sent off an email. I suggest others do likewise.

  • Qantas has an airline partner, the Qatari government owned, Qatar Airways.
    https://www.qantas.com/fflyer/dyn/partners/airline/qatar-airways
    Alan Joyce would have credibility, as a social commentator, if he supported Qarari women.
    https://jamieglazov.com/2019/04/10/glazov-moment-islamic-video-properly-beat-your-wife/

  • Michael Taouk. I’m sorry…wait, no I’m not; you are not only a whiner but a part of the problem rather than the solution. BM is correct that you have often come to his site in order to attack other Christians and cause divide with your sectarian issues. Look, when ISIS cruelly executed a bunch of Coptic Christians there was a so-called “discernment ministry” which immediately thought it imperative to inform us of all the reasons Coptics were misinformed and not true Christians. Well, those men died BOLDLY calling on the name of Jesus. Would to God that I had their guts, bravery, and conviction under the same horrific circumstances.

    And like Martin Luther, here is Israel Folau, against all odds, against the very gates of Hell, saying, “Here I stand; so help me, God, I can not recant.” How dare anyone claiming to be Christian diss this soldier of the cross and support the world’s view of him as a hater, a reprehensible bigot? As they say in the UK Parliament, “Shame, shame!” Israel Folau did not only mention homosexuality in his statements. NO, he named a number of other sins. And let me tell you, that despite being a Christians for decades, I felt the conviction of the Holy Spirit with some of the other sins he named. So, let’s don’t pretend that he was just honing in on homosexuality. To do so is to succumb to convenient cherry-picking for self-serving purposes, and frankly, that just isn’t the luxury of one who truly believes the Gospel.

  • BTW Mr Joyce

    Since 2004, Article 296 of the current Qatari Penal Code (Law 11/2004) stipulates imprisonment between 1 and 3 years for sodomy between men. This is a slight revision of the original law that stipulated up to five years’ imprisonment for male homosexuality.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Qatar

  • Jesus told us that we should not seek to store our treasures on Earth where thieves can steal it and moths can deteriorate it but to store our treasures in heaven where thieves cannot steal it and nor moths deteriorate it.
    Israel Folau is storing his treasures in heaven – good on him for he is sure to find treasures beyond his dreams for he was prepared to speak his faith and not save that which he surely would have lost but now he has secured that which he has sacrificed and by sacrificing, he has placed on the altar the love for God that most of us lack.
    John Abbott

  • Dear Bill, once again thank you for your research and courage. I have read & heard many who study further than the surface of scripture, you being one of those. I perfectly understand a beievers right to question fictional dates set by man and research denominations in satisfying their heart in Jesus Christ the King of kings and Lord of lords. So once again you remain my No.1 read.
    God richest blessing upon you all you hold Dear and All your readers
    Mark Bryant

  • People can choose to serve God or Satan. Folau happens to choose God, that’s all.

  • Michael, I just watched the video now and I think you’re seeing more problems than actually exist.

    I believe Folau is relying on the KJV for his sermon, which presumably means that’s his regular version. I for one tend to avoid it because the language is so dated as to make comprehension challenging at times. His point about don’t be called father like Roman Catholics is flawed for instance – he says teacher and elder are Scriptural, yet rabbi is defined as teacher in some versions. He also makes an exception for an Earthly father, yet Scripture doesn’t, at least not in the passage he’s relying on for his sermon. His detour regarding Exodus 20 and Mary may be an unusual association, but is the view of most non-Roman Catholics – Mary is just the virgin God chose to bear Christ not the Goddess of Heaven. Folau goes on to ask what idols we have in our lives. What things (money, work, spouse, positions etc) do we place before God? As regards the point about pastors preaching for pay or worldly gain, does that refer to people paid to pastor, which includes preaching, or something more akin to ‘spiritual motivational speakers’? I can’t work out as to whether that’s supporting a Brethren model and rejecting a Baptist\Presbyterian model, or something else. As for Christmas and Easter, are they manmade? They’re not divinely instituted, that’s true but does that mean they’re anti-God? Folau seems to conflate the World celebrating Christmas and Easter with the Church celebrating Christmas and Easter. The two sets of celebrations may share a name, but do they share the same purpose? Celebrating the birth of Christ, or His death and resurrection are slightly different to celebrating Santa, Christmas presents, the Easter Bunny, and lots and lots of chocolate. Not that I have a problem with presents or chocolate and all, it’s just a matter of focus. 🙂 As for Christmas trees, Folau seems to conflate them with idols. Like the paid to preach point I’m not quite sure of his argument so may dispute his view. He mentioned Matthew 7:21 – one of the most disturbing passages around IMHO, and said that a lot of people go to church but don’t follow the doctrine of Christ. In effect a lot of those who tick Christian on the census form, and actually attend church, are only Christian in Name Only types not actual Christ followers. I think most of us would absolutely agree with that, even if we disagree on the details. Folau concluded his sermon by exhorting people to follow the model of the Berean Jews, to study Scripture daily so that no matter who preaches, no matter what is taught, they will not be led astray. Again I think we can fully agree on that.

    After listening to the sermon it seems to me that he’s genuine but unsophisticated. That’s probably the wrong term but I’m not sure what a better one would be. He raises some interesting points – I wasn’t aware Pope actually means father for instance, and I’ve never thought of a Christmas tree as an idol, but the fact I haven’t thought of things that way doesn’t mean he’s wrong. On the other hand the notion of Christmas as a Worldly/ungodly affair strikes me as just plain wrong. A number of years ago I was in a non-English speaking country that doesn’t celebrate Christmas. I’d attended the local Christmas Eve service but there was nothing scheduled for Christmas Day and the thought of spending it at home alone just seemed completely wrong. I put out an open invite to everyone in a large dual language Bible Study group I was a member of saying that I was planning to go to a particular restaurant for lunch – being a non-Christian country everything was open, and anyone who wanted to join me was welcome. There ended up being something like 9 of us who got together, including several I didn’t know. No Christmas tree, no presents, just fun and fellowship. Would Folau approve? I’m not sure, but my impression of him is that I’d be comfortable discussing it with him even if we ended up agreeing to disagree on the subject. Contrast that with those who’ve condemned him. Anyone who doesn’t share their beliefs isn’t likely to enjoy a conversation with them.

    Sorry a tad long and rambly. Feel free to truncate this.

  • Thanks Bill, I am very grateful for your articles. This sacking of Israel is going to have future implications for all of us who like to speak up. This is not the same but makes me think of what is happening in china, they now have notice boards in towns where you can leave information and “dob in Christian’s and get paid a fee”. (Reference open doors Usa fb page.)

  • Gotta agree with you Marissa.

    And, Michael Taouk, sure it is debatable what is correct to be denounced from a pulpit, but have you ever considered there might be some more than a bit of truth in what Israel said about these things you take offence at?

    As a believer who is standing for Christ in the public square, let us pray for and support Israel Falou. Please, keep those who stand for Christ in this nation in your prayers.

  • the most disappointing thing is our Prime Minister and not surprisingly NZ PM ,commenting on this, I thought SM was a Christian? but not surprisingly could lose him votes so it is called insensitive, not the bible is truth.

  • “Further, these sins have far more serious consequences impacting the lives of others, than what goes on between two consenting adults in the privacy of their own bedrooms.”

    Actually, that’s called fornication and adultery (and in this case, also homosexual relations), and it indeed has a direct consequence on one’s eternal destination. It’s not for nothing Jesus and the disciples warn us repeatedly to maintain sexual purity and faithfulness, as the sexually impure and immoral will not enter the kingdom of heaven. That actual “christians” don’t recognize nor understand this is very concerning. That they condemn a brother for passing on the warning is just hopeless. They are lost to the world when Godly standards for purity are less important than politically correct language.

    If one was indeed worried about this issue -“…the most serious of all not placing God first in their lives”, then they would heed His warnings on sexual immorality.

  • I think we need to cut Izzy a bit of slack. He is in a super privileged, but also super pressured position. He has only been a Christian for 11 years and has to throw off a lot of his former teaching from the Mormons. He is a football player, not a pastor/teacher. He has been accelerated into popularity, and is probably pretty much out of his depth much of the time.
    The fact that he hasn’t blown up by now is a testimony of God’s work in his life, and his character, that he has stood firm in all kinds of challenges.

    I can’t help but think that Jesus chose Peter. Peter was in some ways an unsophisticated, impetuous, loud mouth , but was the the right person to head the church at first. Peter’s leadership was soon overshadowed by James’ , the brother of Jesus, and then in many ways by Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. It was Peter who expressed some consternation about Paul’s writings being hard to understand. Peter never was “the theologian”.

    With some excitement and without at all being unkind, we can think that Izzy is more like Peter than Paul. I think we should thank God for that! Izzy is the right person in the right place for now. Sure some of the things he says could be a bit more polished, etc, etc, but he cuts through and hits the target. I am confident that he will grow both in grace, knowledge, truth, and love.

    For those who might be upset about how tough Izzy’s language is; cop this!
    “Anyone who knows me knows I am not the type to upset people intentionally. Since my social media posts were publicised, it has been suggested that I am homophobic and bigoted and that I have a problem with gay people. This could not be further from the truth. I fronted the cover of the Star Observer magazine to show my support for the Bingham Cup, which is an international gay rugby competition for both men and women. I believe in inclusion. In my heart, I know I do not have any phobia towards anyone.”
    http://www.playersvoice.com.au/israel-folau-im-a-sinner-too/?fbclid=IwAR0dvHeZx-0TOh45Zqo_BPdCSX2Rm86i-yPcAybo6nTnSHdkMd6fBToWgHI

    We could easily say that Izzy is too soft here, and begin another hefty round of criticism.

    Let’s give Izzy room. Peter became much more nuanced without losing his grasp on truth. We only have to read his letters to see that. Lets pray that Izzy will also fulfil his ministry.

  • I’ve followed the debate on Israel Folau and am wondering if he would’ve been better declaring that all humans are sinners and need Christ’s salvation. (Romans chapters 3-8 give a good coverage.) And yes, hell is the destination for all who reject the Gospel. So It’s not only homosexuals and the others in 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 who need saving by Christ. Verse 11 says that some of the Corinthians had been just that.
    I also wondered if after Israel’s previous statements his pastor might’ve given him some wisdom on how to both witness to his faith and also keep his place in Australian rugby. Jesus said that in the world we have to be as shrewd as snakes and innocent as doves. (Matthew 10:16)
    Gerrie, I believe that our P.M. is a Christian who worships with his family in a Pentecostal Church. I have a letter from him thanking me for my prayers. In his position he walks a very delicate line.
    Of course there’s hypocrisy from both Rugby Australia and Qantas but we would expect that.

  • Dear Bill,
    While working this afternoon the thought came to me — is it time the debate was had’ ?Morrison is our only hope if there is a chance of the issue being affirmed. Christians who believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ need to – write, email, text, tweet and all the others I do not know about everyone : newspapers, local state members, federal members of Parliament media identities, sporting greats past and present, dignitaries of any standing and demand the right to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and follw Him and His teaching – stand with Israel Folau it would be an election issue that would have the media in a spin. And Pray pray without ceasing.
    Cheers Mark Bryant

  • Dear Garth,

    In case you haven’t noticed the ‘War on Christmas’ is a left wing plot against Christianity.

  • I noticed an article today on mainstream media “Folau attacks Christians”; it looks like they want to divide and conquer us, which shouldn’t surprise us. Let’s not fall for that. We may disagree with him over baptism, Christmas trees, etc. but these issues shouldn’t affect the fact that we Christians all agree that homosexuality, drunkeness and the other sins he mentioned do earn God’s righteous condemnation.

  • Dear Bill, Thank you for the article. The MSM cynically said this morning that Israel had timed his comments well because he has had a better job offer. In other words they think he would have thought twice about publishing his comments if he hadn’t. Who cares! If it is true he might not be as courageous as we first thought and he probably knew he would get the sack and didn’t care but what’s important is that what he said badly needed saying. Also who better to say it than someone like him? At least the PC brigade sat up and took notice. They might even begin to wonder if he might be right as who mentions Hell these days? By sacking him it shows people in no uncertain terms that free speech in our society is fast becoming a thing of the past.

  • Mark Latham a non christian defends Israel’s right to speak and proposes a religious freedom bill in NSW,Scott Morrison a Christian condems his comments as disappointing and insensitive.One stands for righteousness and truth the other appeasment of the false prophet media.
    I am thankful to God for raising up a voice for truth in this nation,how very disppointing it isnt the Christian leader.

  • I was unable to watch the video that Mr Taouk was concerned about since in my location it’s behind a paywall. If someone could point me to where I may watch it, I would appreciate that.

    I did read Mr Mason’s response to Mr Taouk’s post. It seems well thought out, critical where necessary, well where he disagreed with what Israel had said anyway, but Mr Mason did offer an explanation as to why Israel said what he did which is what one brother should do to another, not that Mr Taouk shouldn’t have criticised a brother if he was propagating untruth.

    I am wondering if Israel is as proficient in the pulpit as Mr M is on a football field perhaps. Delivering a sermon requires various gifts, biblical knowledge, good delivery skills and an understanding of the congregation. Having one of these gifts isn’t sadly enough. I always ensure I bring someone who is new to Christianity to church when I am sure the pastor is delivering the sermon as he assures he gets law and grace balanced. I do also think the holy spirit could do with my help lol.

    I think Israel is a great man of God, particularly since he is brave enough to stand out from the crowd and proclaim Jesus is Lord. We all know how easy that is to say in church, but it takes courage to say that where it’s taken as offensive to say such a thing.

    I would not condemn him for saying the equivalent of burn the Christmas tree or burn in hell if he did say such a thing since I would just put that down to an adult impressing on us that Christmas is about Christ and not trees, not to mention turkeys and gifts. Of course, there is a benefit in the fact secular atheist enjoy Christianity’s gift to them. It seems to me, the exchanging of gifts is something the world could do with more of not less. Note the giving and receiving of gifts came out of Christianity, atheism at best may only copy or follow the lead of Christianity. When atheism goes its own way, a state paid vacation in the gulags hardly matches up to turkey and tinsel unless you are the turkey of course. We would be wise to use Christmas and Easter to meet the secular atheist in a celebratory mode so we may evangelise the true meaning while enjoying what the none believer gets out of these times. Keep the bar low not high as being faced with a height jump without the incremental steps is just bad practice. One of our numbers only has to accept Jesus died for her sins from a spiritual endeavour and she must turn away from one particular sin. Then, we will higher the bar, but she will be confident the bar can be assailed, and that will go on until we Christian girls argue who is going to be her towel girl when she is baptised. Interestingly her last act on the road-to-the-road is to step down into the water so she may be rebirthed with the breaking of the waters which will connect her present to the cross in the past. Being born for the second time is the start of our eternity with Christ I think.

    I am always surprised how Christianity can be so destructive to itself; it seems that it limits its power in acts of what can only be described as self-harming. It’s like an army without a leader. I am sure there is something missing, misunderstood or maybe it’s as simple as Christianity can’t exist outside the garden we were rejected from, yes we can reproduce an image of it, but our knowledge of good and evil drives us not only to evil but to seek it in others, such is our love of evil perhaps. The solution, of course, is to unite under Christ, but unity for us seems a bar too high at the moment.

  • The Bible and homosexuality.

    There is an explanation by a man named, ‘Israel’.
    There is derision by a man named, ‘Joyce’.

    Jacinda Ardern doesn’t like what Israel says.
    Jacinda Ardern. Islam says what Israel says (and worse).

    I await Waleed Aly’s verdict on all this.
    Sorry – I must have missed Waleed Aly’s verdict on Brunei’s Sharia Law.

  • You are absolutely correct to point out the lies and hypocrisy of those who oppose God. Thank you again, Bill.

    Israel Folau is accused of helping to cause people living in sexual immorality to kill themselves but this claim is yet another complete straw-man misrepresentation and lie. We know, not only from scripture, but from our own experience that people only become “homosexual” or “transgender” because they ignore God. So to claim this is a cause of their suicide is obvious nonsense to start with. Clearly these people are not remotely motivated by anything God or Christians say.

    It is all based on the lie that homosexuals are born that way and society should feel sorry for them instead of condemning them for their sinful actions. Because people have been allowed to ignore the evidence for what actually causes these problems they are then allowed to get away with completely wrong conclusions and hugely wrongful allegations. Surely, eventually, this house of cards has to fall but not, apparently, before Christians are made to pay for the lies evil has created and promulgated profusely throughout the media.

    Secondly, why, if they did put any credence in what Christians are saying, would they want to kill themselves and hasten their transition to Hell? That claim is obviously illogical and nonsense. Clearly if you wanted to live sinfully based on what Christianity says you would simply get as much pleasure while you could, for as long as you could, and then either repent at the last minute or, more likely, just ignore what Christianity says altogether. Surely it should be obvious that what Christianity says has not the slightest effect on why these people often kill themselves.

    If others want to claim these people are on the outskirts of Christianity and are feeling alienated by this they need to understand this is exactly what Christianity advocates. There is no fence sitting. You either have to become converted, get you imagination under control, get released from the snare of sin and do God’s will or your physical death is the least of your problems.

    Obviously truth being pointed out when you are living a lie is a problem no matter what the sin but this is not why they kill themselves. They kill themselves because of the problems intrinsically caused when you attempt to live a lie. It’s like attempting to blame someone who is trying to rehabilitate someone on drugs because the person on drugs manages to overdose and kill themselves. The problem simply is not in the person trying to bring people back to right living and free them from what they are ensnared in. The problems are fundamental to why the person was a drug addict in the first place. Blaming righteousness because there are consequences for sin is an absurdity and clearly only exists in those who do not trust God.

    I am quite certain a huge proportion of those claimed Christians who condemn Israel for his technique are those who are doing nothing. Doing the accuser’s work is not what Christians should be doing nor should we be causing divisions on obviously non-mortal problems like Christmas. If people have a problem with Israel’s technique then, as the scripture plainly say, it should be raised with him privately, not brought as a public accusation. The scriptures are absolutely clear that we are not to hide the light. The truth does need to be spread abroad and all around. All evil is attempting to do is shut down the light. The fact is the people who are claimed to be so fragile they would be affected by what Israel has said are not going to be reading his online statements anyway and society does need to be reminded of these fundamental truths and that was what Israel was doing his best to do.

    The whole concept of why Israel is being condemned is such an obvious lie yet because Christians are never allowed to put the truth forward, the lies just escalate and snowball. The forces of evil have become hugely adept at causing problems and then managing to blame good people for the problems the evil has caused in the first place. One way or another we have to break through this lie.

  • Just been thinking; and realised Israel Falou tried to be as inclusive as possible naming enough sins that we can all feel included.

  • Graham, the problem with a generic all humans are sinners and need Christ statement is that it doesn’t specify what counts as sin. Too many people today, including people claiming to be Christian, argue that homosexuality, drunkenness etc is not sin. It’s fine as an opening but needs followup which would still result in the controversy we see.

  • I am proud to be a Christian with you Israel…. Fear not for I will help you…

  • Hi Bill
    Israel Folau has a lot more courage than most christians with a public profile. It’s concerning that if he is sacked by ARU for his religious beliefs then that opens up persecution for all christians who believe the gospel and have jobs. If you don’t tow the company because of your beliefs then bye bye career and income. Praying for you and your ministry.. also for Israel Folau.
    Regards

  • One thing Peter Fitzsimon was almost right about. Israel Folau is an man among boys but not just on the Rugby field.

  • Reminds me of a couple of quotes.

    W. Somerset Maugham, “If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.”

    Criss Jami “The man who is most aggressive in teaching tolerance is the most intolerant of all.”

  • I wrote to Allan Joyce of Qantas and said if he is so concerned about defending homosexuals why is he doing business with Etihad airlines, whose owner, the government of Qatar, has on its books that homosexuals are to be sentenced to death.

    Reply….zilch.

  • Where is our religious freedom bill, ScoMo? We can’t wait another 12 months.

    https://www.eternitynews.com.au/australia/government-delays-religious-freedom-bill-until-after-election/

  • Bill Muehlenberg says: “Outspoken Christians Will Not Be Tolerated”

    Brian Houston says: “A message to Folau: The world doesn’t need more judgmental Christians”
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/national/a-message-to-folau-the-world-doesn-t-need-more-judgmental-christians-20190414-p51e0o.html

    “Brian Houston is an Australian pastor and evangelist who has a net worth of $10 million”.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/singers/brian-houston-net-worth/%3famp=1

    I stand with Bill Muehlenberg.

  • Thanks John. Good grief – all Folau did was quote Scripture! Why do I suspect that Houston would have rebuked Jesus and Paul for being far too judgmental and unloving!?

    It looks like I will need to write another article – stay tuned!!

  • As mentioned, my newest piece on Folau, including my thoughts on Houston’s remarks:

    https://billmuehlenberg.com/2019/04/15/folau-and-the-fallout/

  • When the Gay marriage agenda was pushing hard for a yes vote and Christians raised valid concerns we were told ” NOTHING WILL CHANGE.” Yeah, right….

    Even “Christians” were saying we needed to vote yes in order to promote peace and tolerance. One sided peace and tolerance, obviously.

  • For goodness sake, here we have a devout Christian warning sinners and advising them to repent or they will go to hell. How is this hate speech? As a good Christian he is trying to save their souls and they attack him like a pack of mad dogs. I applaud Folau for standing up for his Christian beliefs and shame on the CEO of Qantas for pushing his Gay agenda, I and my family and friends will never fly Qantas again, they should send that Gay Irishman packing.

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